S2E38: Healing Transgenerational Trauma In A Broken System With Amira Noeuv

Amira Noeuv is a 2nd generation cambodian american currently pursuing her doctorate in ethnic sudies at UC San Diego.

Amira Noeuv is currently pursuing her Doctorate in Ethnic Studies at UC San Diego (UCSD). She also has 2 Master's Degrees in Ethics, Peace, and Global Affairs from American University in Washington, D.C., and in Ethnic Studies from UCSD. She completed her B.A. degree in Psychology from UCSD. Amira's current research is on transgenerational trauma and healing, specifically with the Cambodian American community. She is the author of "Girl with the Sak Yon Tattoo." Formerly, she worked as a Program Associate with the American Bar Association Rule of Law Initiative, as a Research Assistant with the United States Institute of Peace, as a fellow with the United Nations Association – National Capital Area, and as an Event Coordinator with UCSD Qualcomm Institute. Amira enjoys engaging in community work, traveling, discovering new foods, playing board games, and experimenting with small space gardening.

Follow her on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/anoeuv/

Read Her Short Story:
"Girl with the Sak Yon Tattoo"

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Maryann Samreth 0:00

Welcome to mental breakthrough, a mental health podcast about owning our most vulnerable stories. As a reminder, we are all human. I'm MaryAnn Samreth, trauma writing coach, founder of sincerely Miss Mary and your host. In this season, I bring in healers, coaches, therapists and writers in the mental health and thought leadership space to share their stories of overcoming their shadows, to get to a place where the light shines again. These are trauma survivors, mental health advocates, spiritual guides, coaches, and first and foremost, human beings, reminding us to be softer and kinder to ourselves, so we can then meet others with the same compassion. The power and sharing our truths with the world gives permission for others to feel safe experiencing theirs. As a disclaimer, this podcast is not a replacement for trauma informed therapy. But as always, you can find mental health resources on my website at www that sincerely, Miss mary.com

Hi, everyone, today's guest I speak to Amira know she is a dear friend of mine. She is a second generation Cambodian American, currently pursuing her doctorate and Ethnic Studies at UC San Diego. She shares her healing journey with us from navigating ADHD as a kid to being diagnosed with bipolar disorder at 19 years old. And she also shares her unique experience of being in a psych ward and how that opened her eyes to the broken system we live in this journey led her to focus her research on healing generational trauma and the impacts of our environment on our healing journey. This is a very important conversation we have systemic trauma is something that I've recently started learning about probably within the past year and a half. And it really plays a huge role in our healing journey because we are almost healing in a system that just goes against the healing journey. And so we we speak in depth about this and so it's it's a very powerful episode. Amira is so brave and sharing her story, and I hope you guys all enjoy it. And also give yourself more grace and compassion. For your healing journey. It's not easy to do to begin with, and it's also not easy to do in a broken system. So give yourself grace and compassion. Before I begin, I'd like to share a few words from our sponsors. I recently caved and I got a FabFitFun box. It's something that looked kind of silly, but I've always secretly wanted to do and I just did it if you guys don't know what FAB Fit fun is, it's a subscription box filled with a skincare accessories, just fun, girly stuff that makes you feel good when you open it and I'm on my joy journey. And so this is exactly how it makes me feel just makes me feel really happy to get basic things. I love being basic. I love skincare, I love accessories. I love everything that I got in my fall boxa I got this red light to thing that you use on your skin that's making me glow every single day. I got a Kate Somerville serum, a vitamin B serum that's also just helping me heal my acne scars. It's just so fun. And it's a cute boxset so if this is something that you want to get, I highly recommend it. You can use my code, Miss Mary for $10 off your first box. I cut coffee on my life earlier this year so I could balance my hormones and heal my gut and it was one of the most difficult decisions because I love coffee. I love cappuccinos. I love my Nespresso and I had to cut it out so I could begin to heal my body. And I was looking for a coffee replacement something that tasted like coffee but didn't have caffeine and the only thing I could find was mushrooms and luckily for SIG Matic is a brand that makes really yummy tasting mushroom blends that are caffeine free. They're also mixed with adaptogen some are adaptogens I still don't know you know what exactly like these mushrooms benefit you I just know they're really really good for you. And so I use for Cymatics every single day. I love Chaga mushroom, I love reishi mushroom, and it makes me feel a lot better than coffee ever did. I don't get really tired after I finish a cup of reishi mushroom mix like I do with coffee. It doesn't make me a dicted I just noticed the difference between using this coffee replacement versus coffee. And it's just made my life a lot easier because I still feel like I get my coffee fix without the negative side effects. So I definitely would give four Cymatics a try. I have a code for $20 off, so you can go to my show notes and get $20 off your first order. Now please enjoy the Episode

Hi, everyone, welcome to Mental breakthrough podcast. Today's guest I have my dear friend Amira noob. She's currently a PhD student at UC San Diego studying ethnic studies. She also received her master's degree in ethics, peace and global affairs from American University in DC. And she also has a bachelor's degree in psychology from UC San Diego. So psychology on psychology on psychology, I absolutely love it. And I can't wait to have this conversation. And she's currently researching transgenerational trauma and healing practices within the Cambodian American community. All of my favorite topics, how are you doing today?

Amira Noeuv 6:26

I'm good. Thank you for having me on. I always love speaking with you.

Maryann Samreth 6:30

I know we can talk for hours, which are gonna happen talking about generational drama and my American where it's yeah, I'm, I'm so excited to, to talk to you and have you share your stories. So my first question I asked everyone is what is your mental breakthrough story that led you to become the person you are today? Yeah,

Amira Noeuv 6:51

I would say like I, you know, was diagnosed with bipolar and ADHD pretty early on, like when I was around 19. But it had been like, a culmination of events. And, you know, when I was younger, especially, there was like, a lot of educational expectations for me, especially coming from my parents, my dad in particular. So I, you know, just like that amount of pressure at such an early age, kind of triggered a lot of, you know, my inability to cope or just like my inability to work through emotions, throughout my teenage years, and then adult. And then just like outside factors, too. So when I was little, I actually didn't speak English. Both of my parents did, but for whatever reason, I only gravitated to CLI.

Maryann Samreth 7:45

That's amazing. My parents would have loved. I mean, I forgot most of it now. Yeah, yeah, that is interesting.

Amira Noeuv 7:53

Yeah. And so I was kind of a little behind in school. And so like, even in elementary school, like on in addition to like, homework, my dad would give me his own workload. So I'd have to like, write two pages, every week that I had to do like grammar than a chapter of a math book. And then I had to do chemistry. And then I had to learn Spanish at the same time as learning English. So, you know, like, he just like, piled it on me like you didn't want me to behind and it was understandable because my parents are also survivors of the Cambodian genocide and, and their education was cut short. And my dad was like, in love with school, and he was telling me the story recently how, you know, when the choirs took over, he was, I think, third teen, and he, you know, like, had to pack everything up in a hurry as they were evacuating people to the countryside. And he had packed his textbooks from school because my dad

Maryann Samreth 8:54

I mean, I love it. Yeah, I was like, Can I say that? I mean, it's also like a tragic story, but really, like, heartwarming that he carried, you know, education was so important to him.

Amira Noeuv 9:05

Mm hmm. So he, he, like, totally embraced that nerdy. You know, like, just loved school. And it was, it broke my heart to hear, you know, at some point, they had to give it up, right, because they weren't supposed to show that they had any intellectual background. And so he watched the soldiers burned his math textbooks and he cried.

Maryann Samreth 9:28

He was 13 to 13.

Amira Noeuv 9:31

Yeah, and so it was just funny because then it kind of made sense why my dad would collect textbooks as like, later on it and then towards them like the other day he was at my house and complaining about how my mom had trashed his answer guides from like the 1990s.

Maryann Samreth 9:56

This is so funny.

Amira Noeuv 9:59

So He used to like have all these like college like math textbooks that he just like, hoarded. And I had to learn from those books while I was in elementary school. So in third grade

Maryann Samreth 10:11

elementary

Amira Noeuv 10:13

school made me do algebra in third grade.

Maryann Samreth 10:17

Oh my god. Yeah. And you also had undiagnosed ADHD. While you were going through, like so much of that. Yeah.

Amira Noeuv 10:26

Like we don't you know, it wasn't anyone at the time, we didn't know this. I was diagnosed as an adult with ADHD in my 20s. And it was because we were talking about like these earlier instances. And so I will get punished because I couldn't do first of all, it was an insane amount of workload, right? But I couldn't concentrate. And I couldn't sit still. And I remember one time, they took everything away from me, i They locked me in a room so I could just do my work, and that we didn't have computers or anything like, right, so I was just, I had a piece of paper and I supposed to write, and they came in, and I drew all over my leg.

Maryann Samreth 11:05

Well, you're like nine. Yeah, exactly. So

Amira Noeuv 11:07

I couldn't like, you know, and learning disability, like that's not in our vocabulary, like, it was just kind of like, you're lazy, you're stupid. You're just not motivated. And so that it was kind of more of a personality thing more than anything. Then, like later on in his adult were like, you know, what, I had a learning disability, I couldn't retain anything. And I was always scared to get like, punished too. And I would like learn something and get it and then forget it the next day, like completely did not know how to like, multiply or whatever, right? So yeah, and I, you know, I kind of always had to, like, be the best. And I think that was why I always hated when people called me smart. Because it felt like it was like a natural thing. Like, oh, she's just born smart, which I wasn't like, and so they never kind of saw the behind the scenes of right

Maryann Samreth 12:02

of using algebra. Yeah.

Amira Noeuv 12:05

And you know, I didn't get to go play, I didn't get to go over a friend's house. I just had to sit there and do work. And so they didn't see that. And they didn't know that, like if I got mistakes on, you know, his homework assignment that I got hit for every one of those mistakes. And so, so I kind of like resented that. And it was hard for me to be like, No, I'm not like you want to understand and it takes more effort for me even now in school, to even be just like performing at a level that maybe my peers are I have to put in more time because of the the ADHD and the bipolar. And it didn't really help also that I went to high school. It was like, it was a college prep high school for low income students. And, you know, it's just like, basically like, this push to always Excel to perform to compete. And, you know, like, growing up there was like, no such thing as like self care, or healing or confronting like, difficult emotions or memories. And so I had 19 When I was in college, like along, you know, with all that pressure, and then I think cherry on top was like, you know, like a family crisis. Like, I ended up in the ICU, I had overdosed on painkiller and like alcohol. And so I was in the ICU, and the doctor had said, like, Oh, if, if it was like, an hour later, you would have been gone. Oh, yeah. Like, my liver was, like, completely effed up and like, yeah, so and then like, yeah, I ended up in the ICU for I think, like three days or something like that. And my mom didn't even know until the last day really,

Maryann Samreth 13:51

so you're by herself in the hospital, or did you have anyone with you?

Amira Noeuv 13:56

I so I had came back to campus and it was in San Diego, my parents lived like 15 minutes away. And it was then I did it while I was on campus, like in my dorm, or whatever. And it was after spring break. And so then some friends came over and took me to the hospital all so I had sort of like became like disoriented, right. And like, just out of it. And so they were there and they would like come and visit. I don't remember it. Like it completely, like blacked out. Yeah, most of it. And I guess I had friends come over and then it wasn't until I like woke up again. You know, they're like, Would you want us to call your mom and so I said yes. And that's how she found out and she was just like, super obviously, like, frantic and like, yeah, that I remember like vividly. Yeah, and then after that, I was in like an in like a psych Patrick hospital and I supposed to be in there for like two weeks I think but quite a good add on like, quote unquote good behavior that go. Nothing looks wrong with her. She seems fine. I was the youngest patient there. And so yeah, then I ever since then I sort of like have been in outpatient therapy and like working with psychiatrist and like the psychologist and yeah, I think it's like a continuous healing journey. I still go to therapy, and I still see a psychiatrist. Also, I've gotten a long way since then.

Maryann Samreth 15:33

Yeah, that's quite a journey, especially at 19. That's incredibly young. What was your was, you know, going into the psych ward, I'm sure that was, you know, kind of a traumatic experience for you, especially being so young was, was that kind of like, a turning point for you? And they were like, I don't know what one psych wards were like, Yeah, that was that an introduction to like self care, and like mental health? Did it make kind of like the things you're experiencing, like less painful and more normalized when you're in the psych ward?

Amira Noeuv 16:04

And like, did the opposite. Okay, so I actually really, like kind of backtrack a little I wanted to be a psychiatrist. So now I'm the patient. So that was weird. And, you know, I think my parents had justified it to themselves. They're like, Oh, well, she didn't do this, because of her upbringing. You know, she did this because she was experimenting. She was researching this as part of her research.

Maryann Samreth 16:28

Yeah, they're trying to make make sense out of

Amira Noeuv 16:32

it. Yeah, exactly. And, in my mind, I thought like, it was like the movies where they it was like a rehab center. And it was like, in this like, my fast place. And it wasn't like that, it was a lot like jail. And I remember having, I remember, when I got my mom took me out. And I saw the sun for the first time. And I cried, because I haven't seen and seen the sun for like, like, I want to say like a week and a half.

Maryann Samreth 16:59

They did like don't take you outside. You were there it was

Amira Noeuv 17:03

too. So I was poor. So I couldn't afford like this nice facility. And it was like underneath. It was underneath the hospital, like the main hospital, which had like 20 Something floors, and it was obstructed by the canyon. So it was built like at the bottom. And so even if you went outside, all you saw was like the canyon all around, you couldn't really see the sun. And, and I feel like those states or whatever, like the psych wards like those are more common than probably like the nice ones. So if people go through these experiences, I think that was more representative and I just remembered a small zoo. And it was like, at night, it was just like, awful, because that was when people were like, screaming and crying. And, and I remember going we had had to go to a drug and alcohol abuse, like meeting. And everyone in there was like, oh, you know, I've been doing heroin crack for like 50 years. And then like, I'm 19

Maryann Samreth 18:08

Wow, I can't even imagine like that experience. And and also, you said yours, you want it to be a psych psychiatrist up until you experienced that. And also that was that was a low income, like rehab center. So like that you got a look kind of like an insight on what the mental healthcare low income get, which is, basically they're not able to get out.

Amira Noeuv 18:31

Yeah, and it's actually influenced like my work now, because I feel like what it was was incarceration, you're pretty much just locked away, right. And some people were locked away in there for a while because, you know, whatever their family and stuff can take care of them. The nurses and the staff try, but it's also like a stressful situation for them. But there's this power dynamic to that doesn't make sense in there. And, you know, I saw the psychiatrist and they, within 15 minutes had diagnosed me with long term depression. So that was my original diagnosis. And I didn't take medication that they were giving, like, I took some of it and some of it I didn't because I was like, you've seen me for 15 minutes. Like how are you making this diagnosis? Like, you know, um, I guess I checked off the, like, you know, the

Maryann Samreth 19:16

Yeah, that DSM boxes. DSM was created by the patriarchy keep but low income people like Yeah, wow. So you actually like experienced it and have been able to see that and that yeah, like, how has that impacted your work now and what was the shift after you had that experience? And yeah, how did your like transition and like your your mindset change after that experience and into the career you're in now and the path you're in now,

Amira Noeuv 19:44

I after I got out, I still was I still stayed in like a psych major, but I knew I did not want to do psychiatry like and then at the time, I also didn't have the vocabulary that I do now for it so I can call it out for you. Call it out for like Patriot we can call it out for incarceration, all this stuff I didn't have that. I just knew it felt wrong, it didn't feel good. And just watching how they, you know, my remember I had a roommate who was in her 50s Also, and they just took her to shock therapy, the fact that shock therapy was shocking. Yeah, they shot her. And she was losing her short term memory. So she was like, freaking angry and like via, like, quote, oh

Maryann Samreth 20:26

my gosh, wow,

Amira Noeuv 20:29

the fact that like, it still happens. And like, it was like mind blowing to me, because I really thought I was gonna go to this like retreat. Like, right, right. Yeah. And so yeah, I decided not to be psychiatrists. But then I didn't know what to do after. And, you know, my dad kind of guided me all the way up until that point, so I felt like I was just let go. And I fell off a cliff kind of thing. And I didn't, I didn't have a path. So I was still like, partying, I was still doing this. And that and it took me years. You know, like, I was still struggling with the bipolar and, and all of that. But still regularly going to therapy, like talk therapy. It took me a while to like, take medication, but I eventually went on them and helped a little bit, but I think it was like other things. And so after that, I kind of just partied. And it was kind of reckless, and I want it to be like an event. Like I was an event coordinator, but I wanted to like plan just like club parties. And this and that, like, yeah,

Maryann Samreth 21:37

you know, like a normal young 20 year old. Yeah, that's the dream.

Amira Noeuv 21:42

Yeah. And traveling, traveling, I think was what helped me the most. And I think that probably saved my life. Because right after that, I got accepted to study abroad in England for a year. And it was I almost didn't get to go because of that whole episode. And my I told my psychologist, and I was like, you have to let me go, because I truly think I needed this to, to like, you know, work things out or whatever. And so they let me which was amazing. And I ended up living in Morocco. And it was just a different way of life. And just appreciating things. Like that wasn't materialistic. And it wasn't like, it was just I was in a different mindset. And, and I think the pace of life was different, too. And I think that helped me more than anything.

Maryann Samreth 22:34

So you were in London, and then you went to Morocco.

Amira Noeuv 22:37

I was in Brighton for so I was in Brighton for a year, and then I decided to hitchhike to Morocco with some friend wives. Yeah. That's so cool. Yeah. And I actually got in trouble for it. So it was so I said, if we raised 300 pounds, then, you know, to help like build schools in Sub Saharan Africa, we would take it upon ourselves to do this challenge of hitchhiking to Morocco, from England. Yeah. And we did. We raised the money. And so when, and I just fell in love with it. So I decided to stay and I didn't come back to

Maryann Samreth 23:16

Oh, my God. Yeah, I love this rebellious like it because that's what you needed. That's what yeah, that's what you needed at the time.

Amira Noeuv 23:26

Yeah, I mean, now I just like, I can't believe I did that. And I don't know who that person is. But at the time, it was what I was. And yeah, I had said that I was going to live off the grid, because technology was like, I was always on Facebook. It was just like toxic. So I was like, you know, I'm taking a break. I just want to enjoy my life with my best friend. We're just going to do this. And I guess people had thought that it sounded weird that I was kidnapped and like, forced to write this and I didn't know this until like 10 years later. And so they call the authorities on us and so we got in trouble. But the US Embassy, the UK embassy in the Moroccan embassy was looking for

Maryann Samreth 24:03

us. Wait, why do they think you're kidnapped because they thought that because we decided to

Amira Noeuv 24:07

go off the grid. And they just thought that it was like a bizarre just thought it was bizarre like we just skipped school to do this.

Maryann Samreth 24:19

Really so like your last Facebook status was like going off the grid? That you were kidnapped? Yeah,

Amira Noeuv 24:25

it was like something meaningful but I like said where I was right. And I was like I'm living here and living off the grid I love like whatever it was just like I don't know it was like very eat love pray whatever. Yeah, yeah. Everyone just thought that like oh and yeah, we got in Super in like in a lot of trouble. We came back and finished school eventually.

Maryann Samreth 24:55

adventure ended very abruptly. Yeah, it did.

Amira Noeuv 24:59

Yeah. And, you know, I think my psychologist at the time was like, Can you see that this is part of your bipolar that you did all this? And I was like, but it felt good.

Maryann Samreth 25:11

Yeah, can you talk a little bit about, you know, ADHD and bipolar disorder and like, what, like stigmas there are around it that you you'd like to break? Or you want, I guess, the world to break?

Amira Noeuv 25:23

Yeah, I, um, so I was diagnosed with bipolar type two. And at the end, in the earlier years, it was more rapid. So I never had a middle ground. Like, I didn't know what it was to just be mellow. And like, in the middle, it was either a very high maniac, you know, or very low crashed depression, right. But it always starts out for me with a manic episode. And so it's like, for me, it was extensively spending money. And then it was also being promiscuous. It was partying, it was, you know, the smoking, the drinking. Just like anything that was like, instantaneous gratification was what I seeked you know, and eventually, like, I couldn't like when your responsibilities and then the consequences of your actions catch up with you was when I crash, you know, like I because at the high I'm like, I'm like freaking god. Like, I'm, I'm like, not God, but I'm pretty close. You know, like, you know, everything's like in the in the palm, I can do anything. It's like that mentality, I don't sleep. I don't need sleep, because there's just so much stuff to do. And then you realize, no, you're nothing. Yeah, and you crash and. And so that was kind of like my bipolar than the ADHD was like more as like an adult where I can't sit still, like, if I'm in a classroom, I have to let the professor's know that I will probably get up, I will probably not make it to class. First of all, like because I get distracted on the way to class. But if I'm in class, I will be pacing, I'll be walking, I'll probably leave like five times. I can't really pay attention that well, and just very fidgety, very anxious all the time. And so that's kind of like how I that's like how these, I guess, like disorders manifest for me. Yeah. And I didn't know like for me now. And I recently read this book project called open and emergency. It's by the Asian American literary review. It's a hybrid book art project that looks to decolonize mental health, and it talks about mental health and unwellness. And what that means for Asian Americans. So you ever had a chance? I highly, highly recommend it to you, because it's like, it changed my life on how I think about mental illnesses in general. And, you know, they question what it is, and why we need to critique it, because it's like, you know, coming from like, this Western framework that dominates how we talk and approach to treatment of mental health illnesses. So, you know, not just bipolar and ADHD. So I think, like for me to break that stigma of bipolar, ADHD or any other mental health diagnosis, like we kind of have to think about who, and like the system that are setting or, you know, like, coming up with these diagnosis and what powers at play, because a lot of the times, it's in ternal eyes, it's like our deficit or our community's deficit. And then I realized, you know, what, there's external factors. There's like something larger at play, that puts me in a position here, like, It's not my fault, per se that I'm dealing with bipolar or, or ADHD, or like, that's what you're calling it. It's

Maryann Samreth 28:51

systemic, right? Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

Amira Noeuv 28:54

Yeah. And so I think like taking away like trying not to internalize it and seeing it as like, I'm the victim of these or I'm it seeing it as like, this is what the Western society is telling about me that, that I'm not normal. And what is normal even mean? Like? Yeah, so we never really talked about what the hell mental health is supposed to be like, how do you? What is exactly mental health? Like, that's very obscured. And so it's, I don't know, I guess it's like, very philosophical.

Maryann Samreth 29:26

I mean, I love it. You can you can go deeper if you'd like.

Amira Noeuv 29:30

Like, I just, I Yeah. So I just think about these things. And, like realizing that, you know, for me, it's also like, the genocide is, you know, it's transgenerational trauma. But like, it's not just because it's my fault or my community's fault, but it's the fact that there was genocide that the US, you know, bombed our country, the US brought us over as refugees. But kind of just dumped us, right? And all that comes out with, like, you know, all kinds of consequences that gets put back on our community. But also, then that kind of takes away their responsibility and their accountability to what they've done to us. So sometimes that helps me think about my issues. It's not just something that's a chemical imbalance. Right,

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