S1E14: An Undocumented Childhood With Yale Law Grad & Litigator, Qian Julie Wang

Qian Julie shares her story of being an undocumented child in New York City, her experience working her way up the corporate litigator ladder as an Asian American woman, and how a mentor encouraged her to write her book. This is an inspiring and powerful episode.

About Qian Julie:
Qian Julie Wang is a graduate of Yale Law School and Swarthmore College. Formerly a corporate litigator, she is now managing partner of a law firm dedicated to advocating for education and discrimination rights. Her first book, Beautiful Country, is a poignant and powerful literary memoir about her childhood years spent living undocumented in New York City. It will publish with Doubleday (US and Canada) and Viking (UK and Commonwealth) in September 2021. Her short writing has appeared in major publications such as the New York Times and the Washington Post. She lives in Brooklyn with her husband and their two rescue dogs, Salty and Peppers.

Connect With Qian Julie:

Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, TikTok: @QianJulieWang

LinkedIn: Qian Julie Wang

Pre-order link for the book: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/670389/beautiful-country-by-qian-julie-wang/

Author Website: https://www.qianjuliewang.com/

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Intro:
Welcome to Mental Breakthrough, a memoir podcast about owning our most vulnerable stories so we can live a life of authenticity.

I’m Maryann Samreth, the woman behind the pen name, Sincerely Miss Mary. Together, I take you through my healing journey as I share stories of moving through pain to get to the other side where the light shines again.

In this season, I carry you moment to moment, starting with a tumultuous breakup, then multiple breakdowns, and eventually a breakthrough.

I share stories of how my gift of writing guided me through the darkest moments of my life, leading me to reconnect with my Cambodian ancestors and break the cycle of generational trauma.

There is power in storytelling and sharing our vulnerabilities with the world. It opens doors to cultivate deeper connections with others on the same journey so we can heal as a collective.

By sharing my truths, I pave the way for others to feel safe sharing theirs. We all have a story to tell. Stories that can be someone’s silver lining. Stories of hope.

Maryann Samreth 1:01

Hey, dear friends. In today's episode, I interviewed Jan Julie Wang, a former corporate litigator and graduate of Yale Law School. We talk about her first upcoming book beautiful country, a memoir about her childhood year spent living undocumented in New York City. This book is published by double day and will be released in September, I will include all her information in my show notes, she shares her story of having to live with the secret of being a once undocumented immigrant and how this affected her mental health as an adult. She talks about her career journey as a corporate litigator, and having to raise her voice louder as an Asian American woman. Her journey led to her leaving her job to eventually become a managing partner of a law firm dedicated to advocating for education and discrimination rights, her true passion. She also shares the best advice a mentor gave her to encourage her to write her memoir, and release the weight of her untold stories. If you dream of writing a memoir someday in fear is holding you back. This episode will empower and inspire you to speak your truths. This is Jan Julie Juan's mental breakthrough story. Welcome to mental breakthrough podcast.

Today's guest

I have Qian Julie Wang. She is an amazing badass lawyer graduate from Yale Law School and a soon to be published. Author. Hi, Julia. How's it going?

Qian Julie Wang 3:02

How are you, Maryann, thanks for having Yeah, of course, I'm

Maryann Samreth 3:05

so excited to have you on and have we have so many things to talk about. We met on the Twitter writing community. And if you're a writer, definitely get on Twitter. I joined like the writing community on in July. And I was so surprised with how supportive that community is. So I'm so fortunate to have connected with you through Twitter.

Qian Julie Wang 3:31

Yeah, I was shocked by how many great people I was able to meet on Twitter. I kind of avoided using Twitter for a very long time just assuming that I didn't know how to how to use it. But then I joined and people were just so it was a different Twitter

Maryann Samreth 3:47

and I'm just so fortunate to have met you because I always tell you like every time like you reach out to me to like help me with my like writing journey I just get so shocked because like I used to work in fashion and no I've never had a mentor or anyone that to guide me and I was just so grateful that like you've been such a great support system as I journey into my my writing career. So thank you for being so supportive of what I'm doing and it's just been so great to like meet someone that had had similar experiences especially being an Asian American and has the same mindset so it's just it's been so great to get to know you.

Qian Julie Wang 4:26

The joys absolutely the mind it's been inspiring to watch your videos and and just you be so brave and setting such a great example for all of us.

Thank you.

Maryann Samreth 4:39

And yeah, so I would love to hear your story of how you became the thought leader you are today and talk about like your story and like how you got the how you cultivated the courage to write your memoir Julie has a memoir coming out soon where she talks about her experience of being an underdog documented immigrant. And she moved here when she was seven. And it's an incredible brave story to share. So, yeah, platforms, all yours.

Qian Julie Wang 5:09

So it's a long story. My book is titled beautiful country, a memoir coming out with double day in September 7, published under my full name chin, Julie Wong. And I guess I'll just kind of start from the beginning and move, you know, fast forward through some parts that might take a while. But um, I moved here to New York City, Brooklyn with my parents at age seven and lived in undocumented status and, and poverty for many years after that. As you know, that whole time that we were in extreme hardship, like, I went to school hungry, my mom couldn't go to doctors, even though she was really sick, worked at sweatshops in Suzhou factories. The thing that really kept me going was was my mom telling me that it was all temporary. But also this idea that one day, I could outwork my station in life and get to a place where I really assimilated and fit in and achieved the whole American Dream kit and caboodle package that they sell to us immigrants. And that's what I spent most of my life doing. Right. I, I, I wanted to get into the best law school, I wanted to get into a top college, I believe that as, as soon as I became a legitimate person in the eyes of America legalized a lawyer making a lot of money. Because anyone who's been in poverty probably knows that that's a huge trauma to be carrying around. And how you try to stave it is, is with lots of cash, even though it doesn't necessarily fix the psychological trauma. So in 2015, I found myself kind of at that place that I had worked toward my whole life, I was about 28 years old, was working at a major law firm, probably the most profitable law firm in the world, if not definitely in the United States. Living in Manhattan, I was married to my college boyfriend had two dogs. And this was it. This was everything I'd worked for. problem was I was working from 10am to 3am, every day, like every day, including weekends, and a few months, and I'm kind of into kind of this process where I was just becoming this robot of waking up working, waking up working, and that was rinse and repeat. I woke up one day and I just had no energy in my body. And I was like, this is it. I worked my whole life to be, you know, acceptable to my country. And this is it. I feel like a machine. This can't be it. Right? I'm supposed to be at the top of the mountain. This can't be and I just collapse. Like I just just lost my drive lost my will really, you know, I found myself when I saw some of your videos, I found myself crossing the street thinking Oh, it'd be nice if the car hit me right now. Like to take me out of my misery, right? Like there was just things that were thoughts that were completely new to me that I had never seen and recognize myself before my Who am I becoming this is terrifying. I was supposed to be the happiest I've ever been like, this is everything I work for. So I wanted to therapy. And that was kind of the beginning of me reckoning with so much of what I had just buried, like I didn't deal with the reality of having grown up so poor, the reality of living in a state where I was told that I was illegal. And I was told that at any minute, I could be sent back to a country that I didn't identify with, that I couldn't where I couldn't even read the language anymore. It was a lot easier to wrap my mind around the physical trauma, right of being hungry of being so poor and not having clean clothes. That I feel like it's so obvious that you're able to be more able to wrap your mind around and be like okay, I guess I felt justified and being this traumatized or with this. The emotional reality was what once I started processing and therapy really, really got me right. The emotional realities of when your parents are under a lot of stress. They are fighting all the time and sometimes they verbally abuse you at a young age, emotional reality of not feeling like you belong and that you're a transient at all times, not being able to take up space at all and not being you know, I went by Julian soda chin

in my teenage years, and after Because I didn't want to cause discomfort on anyone who met me who couldn't pronounce my, my name is pronounced QA and like, it's impossible usually for the white tongue to recognize spell or pronounce. And I didn't want to take up space. And from that, you can kind of see how I just buried my identity for the comfort of this white world. So it was really I think anyone who's started therapy knows that it's really hard when you first start, right, like your whole world kind of comes down on you. And you're just like, what is my life like, my whole life has been taken care of others, I don't know what to do. So that whole unraveling happened for me in 2015. And it was really the beginning of me finding my voice. My first husband and I got a divorce. He and I bonded over growing up poor and immigrant families, but like me, he buried his trauma never talked about it. And in 2016, he insisted on supporting Trump and voting for Trump, even though we were both immigrants. And I, you know, it became a conversation of how could you vote against, you know, undocumented immigrants, one of whom, you know, I used to be one and you're married to her. So how can you justify that? And he said, You know, that's the only way to fix our country to keep out families like yours. And, you know, you're okay, because I've thoroughly vetted you. And I was like, what, who is this person I'm married to and, and it's, we didn't start out that way. And I didn't start out that way. Right? Like when we met, we were really young, and really raw and open with each other. But over the years, you learn to kind of collect this armor, because you're rejecting something in yourself. And that's what I had been doing right chasing the esteem of the ivory tower, corporate world, whatever you want to call it, because it was an external validation. And for him, I guess he found external validation as a man of immigrant of color men of color, in the mega community, for some reason, and I just, I just didn't understand that. But But, you know, that whole process made me re examine everything I had built in my life, like, who had I chosen to be my husband? Right? Like, how was I engaging with my parents? And how was that replicating everything, every traumatic, you know, dynamic, that we were placed in early on in our time in America. And, yeah, I, it started with my personal life, finding my voice there asserting boundaries, my parents for the first time, which I've never, and I think this is very difficult for a lot of women and AAPI community just really need to say no to your parents and draw a line initiating my wars. Yeah. And it trickles into your, you know, your, your work life. Over time, you can't just begin practicing these things and learning what is important to you as your authentic self, you begin to realize, or I did at least, I always wanted to write this book. I remember being a kid and learning English, at the, at the library on library books. And it was great to learn about how suburban white teens lived. Right? It gave me a sense of comfort, like, oh, their lives are so stable. Imagine that. But there was never a book about what I was going through. And more importantly, I wanted to know that someone had made it through, okay, that they could get on the other end and be okay. And so as a kid, I was thought, oh, maybe I'll write a book one day, like just as a very far away pipe dream. And it kept coming back to me this idea, and I worked on in a college. But again, I was too young, I didn't want to claim this experience and traumas my own. So I wrote fiction, and it just didn't work. So I sent it back again. And then after my divorce, was finalized, and 2017, I was like, No, I have time and space to focus on what I want to be doing. And I became a citizen, actually a few months before the November 2016 election. So I had all this newfound privilege and power, while the rhetoric of the country was was going in a completely opposite direction. So I felt a huge responsibility that this was my time to share this story, to humanize this experience. And to really give people a first hand look of what it's like to be undocumented and to be told on a daily basis that you're illegal. Um, so yeah, I began working on it then and it's kind of I've had fits and stars I've had, I took a full year off writing at one point because I was like, I'm never going to write those. I wrote the book on on my iPhone on my commute to work every day. And I will say that being a litigator and having to stand up in court and assert the claims and rights of my clients. Really He forced me to do that thing that often, at least in my family, but I think very commonly in the AAPI community, we're told not to do as women, which is to keep your head down and not make waves. I couldn't do that professionally, I had to stand up, I had to make trouble, right? That was what I was being paid. I love that, um, and the more I did it for someone else, the more I was able to repeat it for myself, like, I tell him, like I, you have a right to this, and I go home, and I'm like, I have a right to this, right. This is your time to the client. To me, it's like, this is my time. So that kind of faking it till you make it really seemed to work for me, because I found the louder and better I got in the courtroom, the more sort of I was able to learn to be personally. And it's not, it's not easy. It wasn't easy the whole time. And it wasn't smooth sailing the whole time. But it's gotten me here, and I'm still, you know, working on things. But um, I think my life now is just so much more open in a way that chasing that golden American dream. Never would have to be.

Maryann Samreth 16:09

That's incredible. And it really sounds like your path towards you know, once you're working in corporate law and advocating for a client was part of your healing journey to advocate for yourself, because how can you advocate for someone else? If you can't advocate for yourself? Like it goes hand in hand? And what was your experience of, you know, choosing to focus on mental health, especially in the Asian American community, it's so looked down upon, you know, like, there's so much mental health stigma around the Asian American community. I remember when I first started going to therapy, there was so much shame. Like I thought I failed at life. I was so embarrassed. I remember walking to my first therapy session, and feeling so much shame, so much embarrassment. And then after I was like, wait, like, this is amazing. Therapy is amazing. So what was that like for you being an Asian American, starting to focus on your mental health and having that kind of just overall just reflect, you know, create a better life for you a life towards, you know, the life you deserve? Have be able to look at your past traumas and define it rather than having it define you.

Qian Julie Wang 17:22

Yeah, I remember when I told my dad that I was going into therapy, and he was like, why you're not crazy. And that's a very common refrain. I think in in Asian culture. Only crazy people go to therapy, one seems from general experience that it's the really, you know, far gone, people who will refuse to go so. But I remember the first time I told anyone I had been undocumented was when I was clerking for a federal appellate judge. And she, it's weird when you're exposed to like a new dynamic, that's not codependency. And that's not, you know, capitalist like using my employees as a as an object to make money. It was a weird dynamic with this judge, you really invested in me and then toward me. And so I felt like for the first time, because she represented so much right like of legitimacy of the American government. I don't know, I just propelled me one day to go into her chambers and say, I need to tell you something as something I've been carrying for 20. Some years, I was undocumented. And even at that point, I was a lawyer. I knew laws. I knew I was legal at that point, right. But I was away, she was going to deport me, she was going to fire me she was going to yell at me. I don't know. It's and what she said that will always stick with me. And that's in my book. She immediately understood and she said, secrets that carries so much weight, don't they have so much power? And I had never thought about that before. But it really is what we don't talk about, that has the most power over us. And there were so much I did not talk about because my parents I couldn't do it. It was dangerous. I understand that fear. But then I looked at what my parents didn't talk about. I mean, there was so much generational trauma in our family. My my dad survived horrific incidents in the China's Cultural Revolution as a very young kid, and it's shaped him indelibly, but he won't talk about it. And I was like to break this, right. I don't want to pass this down. Whatever it is, that's making it hard for me to wake up in the morning. Whatever it is that I've gotten from my parents and the way they've talked to me and taught me to deal with the world. I don't want to pass this down to the next generation. It stops here and the only way I could figure out how to do that. Well, first was reading a lot of books and you know, the body keeps score and the drama of the gifted child, it really opened my eyes because then for the first time, I was like, Oh, I'm not alone, I'm not a freak. There are other people who are experiences experiencing this exact thing, because of very similar reasons. And it made me feel like all of a sudden, oh, I could be understood. And so that made me feel okay, going into therapy and understanding it not as fixing some insanity inside me, which was what our community often teaches us to think but understanding myself talking through the things I had never talked through, maybe even in the safety of that office, reliving or going back to incidents that, that I have felt too terrified to revisit. And having done that, and a frequent exercise, at least in my therapy is going back with my childhood self, but seeing myself in the adult version, also their parenting her, that kind of reclaiming of, of a traumatic experience has been incredibly empowering. Because you no longer live with the fear of I can't face this, I can't face what happened to me, and I can't face it, if it happened, again, you are choosing on your own terms, to face it again, but from a place of empowerment. And it's just really, as I said, opened up the doors for me, there are very few things I can honestly say that I'm scared of anymore. And living in fear, something that I knew I did not want, right? That's

Maryann Samreth 21:40

so true. When we keep secrets. It's heavy. And you essentially took through the writing process, took your secrets, put it onto paper, put it on your iPhone, and you're now putting it out to the world and you're owning your story. secrets are just stories that we're afraid to tell. And by you doing that, and writing, you're free from the stories and exactly what you said about doing trauma work, it's not even learning to shut off that trauma. It's, it's not even labeling it bad or wrong. It's just is and we just have to learn to exist with that part of us and learning about our traumas and how our trauma responses are. It's just learning how to live with that. And it's not wrong. Yes, it's hard, like as opposed to someone what know what, like a cookie cutter, white picket fence, a perfect childhood, but it's it's just our lives. And it's it just is what it is. And we're able to power be empowered by by our past and owning our stories. And what was that process? Like when you started writing? on your iPhone? What did you were you did you know you're writing a book when you're writing on your iPhone? Was it like journaling? And I also started writing on my iPhone too. So like, I didn't know I what I was doing. I didn't know like, three years later, I'd quit my fashion job and be a writer. So what was that process? Like when you begin writing on your own?

Qian Julie Wang 23:17

I think so to get started. And this continues on that conversation with the judge, who was, I think, a great, a great mentor for me, but also, in a way kind of a parental figure. I needed someone in that position to tell me these things. And she said, I said I wanted to write this book. But I was terrified, because I never told anyone this as you might tell from how terrified I am right now sitting in front of you. And she said, you know, wouldn't you love it? If your great grandma had written a book about her life and you had it still? Wouldn't that be great just to have? Why don't you just write it for your kids and your grandchildren and your great grandchildren. You don't have to publish it. Just write a free for you and your family because people deserve to know where they come from and the strength that they are descendants of? And it was I was like, Oh, I guess I could see it that way. Of course. She knew it was a trick because there was no I was gonna write a whole book and not try to publish it. I don't think I guess people do. But that's not my personality. If this book is done, like, I'm going to send it out here, but it was a good way for me. And that's really how I had to write this book. I would write things down on my phone and I'm like, Oh my god, I can't tell the world this. Alright, no one's gonna read it. It's fine. It's fine, right? Like that constant self talk that loop. And also it being on my phone was so casual. It felt like texting a friend. So it was more stream of consciousness. And in that way i was able better able to put down some things that I didn't think of it as like going into capital T capital B the book, right? Like it was just something I was putting down for my kids. And even with that, those safeguards in place, it was still really hard for me to write certain incidents. So I didn't write this book in the order, it appears I started in the middle and jumped around because there was just some events that was really hard to you because to rewrite something, you have to picture the scene, you have to put yourself back there. And I was just wasn't ready for you know, a while and yeah, I would start to write it and then just back off and start to write it and start bawling on the subway, right? Like, those are things that you feel comfortable necessarily tapping into. In a public space, but but right the writing process was I mean, writing a memoir is so personal and different. So the writing process was very much informed by my therapy experience, and talking things through with my therapist and understanding, seeing kind of a scene kind of like a dorama and flipping it around from different degrees, like, how was My mom experiencing this? How was my dad experiencing it. And it was really liberating, because in situations like, I mean, I think all of us, if we're looking at childhood traumas, it's very easy to blame the adult that was there, the teacher, the parent, whomever. And this book, what I wanted to do with it was to show the human experience of everyone who's placed in this, this, this dynamic created by our system, and to do that I had to understand what was going on from my parents at the time. And this is very different from what I thought at the time my parents were going through, this is also very different from who my parents are now today. So be able to see my parents, as you know, live fallible humans with dimensions on such a level really allowed me to find forgiveness for myself, for them. For the other adults around me who, you know, maybe didn't do the right things, but but were doing, as I tried to understand it the best that they can I believe all of us try to do the best that we're capable of at any given moment. But yeah, that also just exonerated me, because I think children carry so much guilt and shame over stuff that happened to them, not because of them. And tapping into that forgiveness for others is really the only way to unleash that forgiveness for yourself, right?

Maryann Samreth 27:25

I think forgiving our parents leads to forgiving ourselves. Because when things happen to us, as a child, we think were bad, we don't understand. I mean, our minds are not fully grown. So we don't understand it's because our parents didn't have the, you know, support system, they need it. And this is why it happened when we're a kid. and bad things happen. We blame ourselves. And so I feel like the process of you writing your memoir, you're able to witness you know your story from a perspective of the adult version of you now that has the tools to heal, and you're able to reach forgiveness with your parents, and then forgive yourself and move forward. And I think that process is so beautiful, being able to write your traumas and heal from it. It's It's so cathartic. And like you said, like writing on your iPhone, I did the same thing. It's just so casual, you do kind of feel like you're it's like you're texting yourself, like love notes or hate notes. And it makes it just, you know, stream of consciousness. It's just very freeing. So I love that, that you did that. And what Um, so it seems like, like, I want to hear about like your job now, like you are working at a firm and you're advocating for education and discrimination and tackling those systems.

tell me more about that?

Qian Julie Wang 28:50

Yeah, so long story I made partner last year at my national firm, and realize that within that system, and you know, it in a big organization, it's so easy to replicate toxic dynamics of family structures and unhealed trauma. And I was seeing that kind of everywhere. And I wasn't I think I saw that I was I would be able to one day do what I went into law to do, which is was to help people like my family, when we came here, people who really need good legal counsel and representation, but it would take me a very long time. And I was worried because I was looking at people around me and I think the longer you are in a structure like that, which is so close to what I like to call the tainted access of power in our country. You know, we've largely white male driven organizations, the longer you're part of that and longer you you're accruing power by being part of that the more you begin to drink the Kool Aid and Become part of it. And I remember talking to another judge who retired really young. And I said, Why did you retire so early. And he said, I firmly believe, you know, by the time that you realize that your your mind is gone, because you're too old, and you're not handling things properly, it's too late. And I think that the same is true in a corporate workspace that by the time that you have the power and leverage to leave that system, because you've received everything you needed from it, you have kind of bought in to the system. And I just couldn't see myself continuing to do that, because I don't know where I would have been at age 50. So I did the very rare thing, I think of turning down a partnership at a major firm, and leaving and my husband and I now have our own firm. And it's been exhilarating and terrifying all at once. So he has specialty and special ed litigation. He's been doing it for 10 years, and I have a lot of experience in discrimination litigation, handling it from both sides, and also on appeal. And I've remembered why it was easier for me to go into a corporate law representing corporations. And it's because I care so much about what I'm doing now. And that can be really taxing, right? I imagine it's things that therapists have to deal with. And nurses have to deal with where they really care about the person that they're working with. And it's very hard to turn off, right and have that kind of degree. And in a way people hire a lawyer because they have that distanced neutrality. And I'm really grateful and fortunate in that I waited while having gotten the skills that I got from the corporate world, because now I am at a better place in my life where I do feel like that heal trauma, both informs how I engage with the clients, how I approach the case, but also gives me license to tell myself, okay, Julie, like you can sleep now or don't worry too much. You know, tomorrow's a new day, and you can keep at it, it's okay to take time to yourself. Without those boundaries in place. If I just gone to the ACLU, or legal aid, right out of law school, I think I would have completely burnt out. And I see that among public defenders. I don't know how they do what they do. But there's so much work in the in the Justice world to be done. Like, obviously, our country's so far from that. And as lawyers, we all feel a little bit of responsibility to keep pushing the ball forward. But if you completely burn yourself out, then you're not going to be of any use to anyone. And that's what I tried to remind myself, but it has been it's been very, very rewarding, but also incredibly stressful.

Maryann Samreth 32:50

Yeah, well, congrats on launching your firm, that is amazing. And you guys are needed, you're needed to correct those systems. And this is how you do it. This is where you start and you're only just going to grow. And I think like, you probably didn't really know who you were when you're entering corporate law. And through that process, even like we talked a little bit about toxic work environments, like I was in that situation, too. And I look back at that, and I'm like, but I learned so much, I learned so much through toxicity leaving toxicity about myself, because toxicity teaches you how to set boundaries within yourself. It teaches you what you don't want teaches you honestly, it teaches you how to be a leader. And now you are a leader and now you're leading your firm in the way you want to, from what you know that does from what you know, doesn't work, because you experienced it. And now you get to do what you know works because you saw it, you experienced it, you lived it. And now you get to set the rules. And now you are creating your own system to disrupt a bigger system. And you'll get there and I truly I truly believe that. And especially as an Asian American women like we are needed to step up and raise our voices. And I see that happening so much the past year. Maybe it's just me seeing that because I'm finally that person now too. But what what does being an Asian American woman mean to you?

Qian Julie Wang 34:32

has been a long journey for me. I think all of us might say that at one point. We were very ashamed of being Asian. I certainly was I wanted to whitewash myself and be acceptable and look white and hated it whenever anyone brought up that I was Asian. But over time, and especially this year, having seen everything that's happened, all of the tragedy and horror that has been inflicted, but also all The art and advocacy that is inspired, I am just so heartened by what I'm seeing, because I have not seen the community this galvanized, at least in my lifetime, and in the US. So I would say that for me, being an Asian American woman means resilience. Because you go out in the world, and everyone seems to feel entitled to us entitled to our bodies, to say things to us, put us in our place, whatever that may be. And you're just going out in the world, and you're just getting cut and cut and cut your little paper clips cuts all over your body. Right? And there's not always I mean, sometimes there are like one major thing that happens to you and you're like, No, I'm justified in saying this person was racist and sexist. And, you know, it's all of the intersections of race class and sexism that we sit upon. And I have been privileged or unfortunate to have experienced this at every class, socio economic level. And the one thing that comes out of it is you start to Gaslight yourself, because everyone in the world is saying, No, I mean, I'm white. And I experienced this, I'm a white woman eyes race, I'm a white man, and I experienced this, you know, I'm an Asian man experience. But there's, it's a special intersection, where you're carrying on so much, and being told that you can't take up space that you can't speak up for yourself, we're always taught to give others and make room for others. And everyone I've known at this year has seems to have been a turning point where we're starting to learn like, No, we have room we have space, this is we can speak up without eroding the rights of others. I mean, and that's what we're told, right? If we speak up, we're taking up someone else's space, but then where's the room for us? So resilience, having to go through that I think creates a special kind of wisdom and strength. That is, um, you know, unique to that particular experience. I'm not, I'm not saying that other groups don't experience similar types of racism and sexism. And but I can only speak from from being a person in my body, that it seems to something that American culture is just just beginning to recognize, I mean, I mean, so much of TV, and movies, still have these stereotypical depictions of who we are supposed to be. And that feeds into violence and misogyny, towards Asian. And I'm, you know, just very heartened that this, especially in the past few weeks, things are starting to the dialogue is starting to shift. Yeah,

Maryann Samreth 37:50

I think a lot of us are angry, what, what's going on, and we're just using that anger as fuel to just be ourselves in this world and take up space. And the way you described, it was so perfectly said that, yeah, everyone is entitled to us. That's what it feels like. And then we're taught to be accommodating. So it's like this perfect Yang Yang that is exploded, because we don't want to be accommodating anymore. We do want to take up space, we do want to stir shit up. But we do want to say our peace and like, we're like the universe's limit

list. And,

you know, the amount of people that take up space, like there are no limits. And everyone, like whatever color you are, like you deserve, you know, to take up space. And it's just acknowledging that and having acceptance that because one person is speaking up does not mean it's diminishing someone else. And I really hope that we'll get there. I know, like we have so much work to do. But I think a lot of us are speaking up taking up space and just cultivating that mindset that we can be ourselves and that we do, in fact belong here.

So that is amazing. So my last question before I know you're going to do a reading from your book is What do you wish the world had more of?

Qian Julie Wang 39:13

empathy. I think that if every child was raised with a little bit more empathy, the parents having more empathy in the child does in turn, taking on more empathy. So many of the problems of our world would not exist anymore. The ability to step into someone else's shoes, see things from their perspective, even if they are, you know, a straight white man, right? Like sometimes I myself need to do that. Not so much because I owe it to the white world to better understand it because I feel like all of us are forced to braise white culture at all times. But because it actually helps me in my anger because once I see it from that person perspective. I'm like, Oh, I feel bad for you or like, you know, I understand I've been there, right? And that disarms I think a lot of people carry all of us carry a lot of anger around that's hurtful to ourselves and that in turn, turn becomes hurtful to others that that can very much be neutralized by by this greater understanding. And therein lies the beauty of books. Books have this incredible power for us to create a shared experience for everyone reading it. Yes, amazing.

Maryann Samreth 40:32

I truly believe that and I hope the world can get there slowly but surely, and our voices are needed and our stories need to be told. So with that being said, Jan is going to do a reading from her upcoming memoir, beautiful country.

Qian Julie Wang 40:50

America was a living lesson and hunger, daylight passed in molasses. And the long hours taking toward lunchtime, the chalk on the board became powdered sugar. My number two pencils breadsticks and my teachers coiled hair a Taro button. And the instant the bell rang, all the energy in my body drained to my legs, which carried me to the school's auditorium cafeteria. They're lined up with my back's stiff straight against the wall, holding my place in line among the other poor unfed, unwashed kids. It would be several minutes more before the rich kids trickled in. towing multicolored lunch bags, full of homemade food. And the week poor kids were the first to arrive we were the last to eat. As the richer cleaner, less hungry kids opened up their containers of yummy made sandwiches and she sticks it half their bouncy and discarded the rest. We stood on the sidelines, stomachs, grumbling and Mouth drooling. Leaning on the walls. We were the rich kids atlases charged with holding up their lunchroom ceiling. The poor kids we never looked each other in the eyes. We exchanged a few words only when one cut another in line. No one wanted to be the leader to receive the congealed brown sludge that the lunch ladies with their gray hair trapped under nets, flopped onto our disposable trays. But beyond that, acknowledging one another would bring into too much focus. The fact that we were just like the hungry stinky kid next to us, each of us with itchy flaky scalps and it's your dry throats. As bad as normal days were though, half days were worse. Most often I forgot they were happening and instead spent the morning luxuriating in the happy delusion that soon I would have lunch. The realization always came in a jolt, my shoes filled with lead as my classmates get to the lobby. And most of those afternoons I was torn between the free rice that awaited and awaited me and that dank, dark sweatshop, and the hungry of freedom that abounded outside. I usually lasted only an hour before succumbing to the pull of the cavernous food. I had a route that I took before reporting to work in the sweatshop after school on half days, I turned on to Catherine Street and then East Broadway, making my way past stores. The fish smells from the markets were a handy antidote. And I was grateful for the nauseating sense before by the time I got to the Manhattan Bridge Overpass. I was lucky as when I came upon a restaurant just as a busboy dumped pails of brown grey water off the edge of the sidewalk. Staring at that muddy river helps stave off the angry hunger roiling in my stomach. Sometimes, though, it backfired, sometimes a sludge and water reminded me only if black sesame and chocolate milk. Sometimes even the fish smell which the white tourists wrinkle their large noses that led me back to a warmer safer place in China, where it was once possible to eat too much and be too full. I typically pushed on until Pike, which found me standing in front of Hong Kong supermarket. Unlucky days they were free samples and I savored each two of those morsels. But on occasion the samples only made the hunger angrier, and it was all I could do two runs the open mouth of the sweatshops rice cooker, so coming to the cold sweat oozing out of my pores. on one specific half day, there had been no samples at Hong Kong supermarket and I had pushed onwards along east Broadway. As soon came upon Seward park by the F station. There a mirage greeted me a truck of people handing out containers. My nose knew the contents long of those containers long before my eyes did. The scent of fried rice was so strong that I had to pinch myself with shaky fingers. I joined the queue without thought. Only while waiting while the tremors in my arms and legs came on full display. Did I start thinking as a professional moved from the 20 some people before me to 15 that 10 I began squinting my eyes towards a window of the truck attempting to make out who was handing the food. They were uniformed. I saw. Were they asking for ID? I didn't think so. But I couldn't be sure. Should I risk it? What would I give them? If they did ask? I needed certainty. So I squinted some more. I squinted until my eyes became slits, and I became a caricature of my race. I squinted with all of the remaining force of my being, but I still couldn't be short enough. I would never be short enough. Still, I stayed in line my body fighting my brain and I live in deadlock. Then there were seven people in front of me and I still couldn't be sure that I wouldn't be caught by those voices voice guided me everywhere I went. If anyone asks you for documents say that you were born here that you've always lived here. This was not China and I could no longer get by on the color of my skin. I was no longer normal. I was never to forget that. Six people. My entire body joined my hand in there shaking and had nothing to do with hunger. Five, I can't get caught. I thought I can't get caught was all I could think. illegal. deported. I was born here. I've always lived here. I can't get caught for people. How would mama and Baba find me if I got caught? No, I couldn't get caught three people. I was so close that I could see the uniformed people's white hats, their shirts and skin and matching color. There were smiling big, wide open smiles. They were holding only containers. I look into one of the woman's eyes and she looked back at me with a smile that hugged me from head head to toe. I could trust her. No, I couldn't. Yes, I could. At this point, I was dizzy from arguing with myself split from fighting every urge. I didn't know when the stalemate broke. I didn't even register it. But it happened. My body gave in. And as it has all of my life. My mind triumphed. Before my but my legs good protests. I broke into a sprint speeding down the street toward the safety of the sweatshop. It was pleasant for a while. I even stopped being hungry. I no longer smelled food, and no longer hurt my stomach rumble. My mind and body knew nothing but to run. By the time I realized what had happened. I was many blocks down in the wrong direction by grand Street, but I didn't stop tears clouded my already eroded vision. But I didn't dare stop. I kept going until salt was all I tasted. I kept going until the only shaking I felt came from my aching feet as they pounded against the concrete to the rhythm of my palpitating heart. Still, I kept going forever. What I keep going, keep going champion. Keep going until that hunger is gone. On that run, only one thing kept pace with me. And it was not hunger. It was fear. Fear was all I tasted. Fear was all I contained. Fear was all I was.

Maryann Samreth 48:05

Thank you so much for sharing. Where can my followers connect with you? When is your book coming out?

Qian Julie Wang 48:12

Yeah, but my book, beautiful country is coming out September 7, you can find me on pretty much every social media platform under my full name, which is at QIANJU, Li e W, A and G change really long. So I'm on Facebook, I'm on Twitter, I'm on Instagram, just open a tick tock account and try to stack videos. So and you can also find my website@www.qinjulewg.com

Maryann Samreth 48:48

amazing and I'll add all of our resources on the show notes. Thank you so much for being here and sharing your story. You're going to continue inspiring so many people and especially the Asian American community. We're just going to continue to empower people to be themselves and take up space. Thank you so much.

Qian Julie Wang 49:06

Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor