S2:E25: Healing Cambodian Burnout With Sopheak Neak

In this week's episode, Sopheak Neak, host of JorJek Podcast, shares his journey of combatting burnout in the workplace, an experience many of us know too well. He dives deep into making the big decision to take a leave of absence from work to put his mental health first and seek a healthier way to balance work and life...this put him on a path to being a community leader empowering underrepresented communities to take up space.

Guest Bio:
Born in Phnom Penh, Cambodia, Sopheak is a first-generation Cambodian-born American immigrant raised with Cambodian traditional collectivism, integrated with American individualism, and now on a journey towards creating his own Cambodian identity -- through learning, loving, and being. Sopheak strives to foster economic and social equity by creating instruments of change through his personal and professional work.

In his spare time, Sopheak searches for Southeast-Asian hole-in-the-walls food and unofficially embarks on a mission to try as many types of pickled fruits and vegetables as he could! If you have any recommendations, drop them his way!

Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/jorjekpodcast/

Website:
https://ssamotorr.norby.live

Maryann Samreth 0:00

Welcome to mental breakthrough, a mental health podcast about owning our most vulnerable stories. As a reminder, we are all human. I'm MaryAnn Samreth, trauma training coach, founder of sincerely Miss Mary and your host. This season I bring in healers, coaches, therapists and writers in the mental health and thought leadership space to share their stories of overcoming their shadows, to get to a place where the light shines again. These are trauma survivors, mental health advocates, spiritual guides, coaches, and first and foremost, human beings, reminding us to be softer and kinder to ourselves, so we can then meet others with the same compassion. The power and sharing our truths with the world gives permission for others to feel safe experiencing theirs. As a disclaimer, this podcast is not a replacement for trauma informed therapy, that as always, you can find mental health resources on my website at www that sincerely, Miss mary.com Hey, everyone, today's guest I bring in my fellow Cambodian born American friend, so Peck neck, host of George jet podcast and founder of sama Torah, a community to empower economic and social equity for underrepresented Cambodians and South East Asian allies. So pack shares his journey of combating burnout in the workplace, and experience many of us know too well. He dives deep into making the big decision to take a leave of absence from work to put his mental health first, and seek a healthier way to balance work and life. This led him to a path of being a community leader empowering underrepresented communities to take up space and be themselves in the world. He also talks about his unique experience being born and raised in Cambodia, and moving to America at 12 years old. And we talk about how this differs from those who came here as refugees. Nevertheless, we are all on the journey of defining our identity in a way that feels safe for us. This is how we come together united by our individual experiences. I hope you all resonate and enjoy this powerful episode.

Hi, everyone, welcome to Mental breakthrough story. Wait, oh my gosh. Okay, I'm just gonna start over. Hi, everyone. This is Maryann, welcome to Mental breakthrough podcast today. We have so pack Nat, they say that right? Yes, you did. Okay. Yay. He is a first generation Cambodian born American. And he has a vision to foster social and economic inclusion for under serving Southeast Asian American communities. And he's also the host of short Jack talk show. And we met because he took one of my trauma writing workshops. So thank you for so much for coming to that. And it's been great connecting with you since then, how are you doing today?

Sopheak Neak 3:23

I'm doing all right. Thank you so much for inviting me. And yeah, like those that the workshop was memorable. And I just like I just had to connect with you.

Maryann Samreth 3:31

Yeah, yeah, we met on Instagram. And we've been connected ever since. And yeah, he is the host of tragic talk show. And he brings in Cambodian to tell their stories and speak about their experience of being Cambodian American and the journey that we all go through individually. So thank you so much for creating that platform and can't wait to dive into more of your story. So my first question for you is what is your mental breakthrough story? And how did you become the person you are today?

Sopheak Neak 4:02

Yeah, um, for me, like it started from a burnout. Yeah, I think it's always going back to the story of burnout. And I feel like you know, we're, I'm one of those Phoenix, you know, from like Harry Potter that kind of like, coming from like ashes of burnout, burnout. Like, it became a DD burnout kind of let through a little bit of look at trends from trends, formation, or like, journey toward healing and the journey toward like, self identifying like, good habits and bad habits that I particularly have. I started off with just like going through the idea of, you know, what it's like to be Cambodian, American and the, and the challenges the adversity that come with that. And how do I win? The privileges that I have, whether that's big or small, to be myself and also practice taking up space. And that's where I'm currently at, like on this journey of like, you know, what it's like to take up space? And what is the challenges that navigate through that? And how, how do I proactively cultivate, like safe space for those around surround me and as well as for those the one that I love? And I feel like that is just I'm still on this journey of this breakthrough.

Maryann Samreth 5:30

Yeah, that's, I mean, burnout is a big deal, especially within the Cambodian community, because, you know, I see it as as like a trauma response, like a flight trauma response, where a lot, so many of us are doing so many activities, and we don't know how to stop. And I think part of our culture is kind of working towards worthiness by being productive. Can you tell me a little bit just about your experience? What workout like, what was your first work burnout experience? What was that like? And did you even realize you were burning out? Like, what was it like, for you? Yeah, you don't realize what happened.

Sopheak Neak 6:14

I think like, burnout is a foreign concept, at least for me at the time, and at least for our community, because I feel like, you know, we Cambodian community has actively been in the, you know, fight flight or freeze mentality. Yeah. And that has been manifested through, you know, generations before me. So for me, it feels normal to burnout. It feels like you know, the normalized, yeah, it's it's normalized, work hard, play hard. You know, sometimes the play hardest and comment just work hard.

Maryann Samreth 6:48

It's like, 2% Yeah, play

Sopheak Neak 6:51

hard. It's kind of like, you know, maybe like that's

Unknown Speaker 6:55

going to sleep.

Sopheak Neak 6:57

Exactly. Just have a roof over the head. That's like a play hard. And so for me, at the time, I never realized what burnout feels like, I never realized, you know, what it means to, like, unpacking the content with burnout was itself like a challenge. So at first, I thought, burnout just mean, like you, like, I would get into the state of just, you know, overwhelm. And that's it, like just getting overwhelmed, and then do something, you know, fun for a couple of days and recover. But what I really learned later on realize that, you know, burnout is actually beyond that is the little things that I don't take care of myself on a daily basis, kind of like when I supposed to have breaks, and then I don't take breaks when I skip lunch, and then only have dinner or like, some time when I have dinner, but then like still thinking about work or continuous nightmare that you know, something gonna happen at work tomorrow. Yeah, there's just like, hunted on a daily basis or some time. And I think like, what what got me really make the realization that you know, burnout is very prominent and burnout is has to be taken care of, or, you know, taking action to or doing something is the fact that durations of time, like, the frequency of me thinking, Okay, I need some time off. It drastically cut down, for example, like before, it needs to be like, every quarter, I feel like okay, I just need to take a weekend trip to every month to every other week to like, every week, and like, Oh my God, every three days, I feel I just need a day off. And that's when I was like, realized, oh, god like this. This is like, what this is the, the reason and this is like the outcome of like, like, not systematic, but like extreme physical, like burnout.

Maryann Samreth 9:00

Right? Did this happen? Be at your first job? Or was it in college and high school to When did you like, first start noticing the burnout? Or when did this start happening?

Sopheak Neak 9:10

Yeah, I would say like, it's probably in my, like, two years ago, and like, my, like, my professional work. I feel like, you know, that was the first time that I was aware of burnout. But I'm looking back, I think, like, it's like, I've just been cooking up the burnout. Kinda like it's been in a crock pot, you know? Knowledge is just building it up. And then professional worlds where, like, there's no longer structure in terms of like, you know, guidance where I would be doing, therefore, like, that's when suddenly it feels like okay, like, it's it's, it's coming I think like, you know, the, the all of the symptom is basically building up since years before then I never think about about it. And that thing like the professional world is where like I started being more like, acknowledging that.

Maryann Samreth 10:06

Yeah. And did it was it mostly noticeable when you weren't working? You know how it's like, it's more hard to relate, it's harder to relax and sit still, then, you know, when you are working and you are kind of like in it, you don't really notice it as much like was it more noticeable? When you know, you did have time off? And you did have, you know, your weekends? Or was it hard for you to like, Take breaks and enjoy those moments of stillness?

Sopheak Neak 10:33

Yeah, you're absolutely right, Mary, I think like, it's, um, when, when I was in a mode of like, you know, I feel I was only only have two mode. Like, one mode is, you know, working completely, like, you know, just, like ignoring everything around me. And then the other mode is just like, mindlessly either scrolling on my phone or just mindlessly watching the shows. And when I realized there's only two mode, I think that's when I noticed that, oh, God, this is burnout. Like, I think, sitting there like what, like you mentioned, like, when I was relaxing, I feel like I'm not really intentionally relaxing, I'm just covering from the energy that I put into work. And that's where I feel like, okay, it's not, it's not relaxing. It's not like even detaching or taking a break is just, like, recovering from all the bodily needs that I didn't take care of.

Maryann Samreth 11:29

Yeah, totally. And how did you like break out of this burnout pattern that you kept repeating,

Sopheak Neak 11:35

um, my first step was just, it was probably one of the hardest stuff was just acknowledging it. Like, for example, like, in a day like 2019, or, like, early 2020, when I start kind of telling myself that, you know, like, I need to break out of the stigma that I had with in terms of like, mental well being and what it's like to kind of seek help, and really did just kind of like, okay, I'm gonna see therapists. Like, I feel like, you know, I, I never realized that we've been paying for, you know, these benefits throughout, like our employment, like, you know, health insurance and whatnot. And I feel like sometimes disappear, wish that I have to tell them. And that's what I did, I took the first step of just okay, I'm going to go through, see a psychotherapist and learn a little bit about, you know, what happened? Or like, what, what is this? Like, is this a burnout? Or is it not a burnout? Or is it something else beyond that. And the first couple of session are by psychotherapist with it first, we're like, I was, like, I feel like I'm just talking to a friend and just venting out. And then I didn't really fully understood the benefits of, you know, having this conversation of like, unpacking those with a psychotherapist. Until, like, I literally took a more aggressive approach in terms of like, you know, like, I'm going to take lesion work, like I think like, you know, reactively healing doesn't seem like healing because, like, my mindset would always prioritize work. So it's almost like, you know, yes, like, I could be taking care of myself but then like, because of my how my mentality is, or you know, like that, that work hard doesn't play it just gonna overcome you know, taking over that boundary of healing and heal. Yeah, so I went into like a journey of like, I took some medical leave from work. I went to a program, a PHP, which is like the Porsche opposition program. And then like, went into like, intensive outpatient program to just learn more about mental health illnesses and learn more about you know, thought distortions that are typically have learned how to navigate through like health insurance. Like who do like, what professional do I work with, like, the differences between licensed counselor, psychotherapy like psychotherapists, psychology, psychiatrists, all those terms. I never know like, I just thought oh, therapists only thing that happening in like, the mental well being space, but apparently, there's a lot more than that. Yeah, there's

Maryann Samreth 14:27

lots of different modalities. And I just want to honor your courage to take a leave of absence from work because I know that's, you know, very hard to do, even within our Cambodian culture to you know, like it you putting yourself first you breaking that pattern of burnout, it's also breaking that generational trauma and doing the healing work of, you know, coming out of that trauma response of like you said, like how our parents are either flight fight, or freeze it you are breaking out of that. What was that experience? Like, when you made that decision to do this group therapy? Was it a relief for you? Was it mixed feelings? Was Was there a stigma like within your family? This? Was this a journey that you went on by yourself?

Sopheak Neak 15:17

Yeah, I'm first and foremost my family didn't know about it.

Maryann Samreth 15:21

Okay, my parents didn't know I went to therapy. And so like, also, like, they didn't know, I quit my fashion career till I published an article about it like a month after. So I get it.

Sopheak Neak 15:33

Yeah, and I think like, um, and I think it's okay to have that, I think. Because that itself is now I realized that it's self care, right? I think like when, when we are healing, or we start to understand a little bit more of like, what helps and what doesn't help. And it doesn't say that my family doesn't help, but it's more of like, my family may not have knowledge in terms of like, what is helpful for me at a certain stage of like, my recovery. So that itself was was we had some, it, it was a decision that I had to make to make sure that I was optimized for my recovery. And, you know, I'm, I'm still recovering this day, I think, like, mental well, being, like, you know, is like a journey rather than like, it could be done in four months or six months. Yeah, it's, it's really, it's, it's so much more than that. And the more that, I think about it, that the scarier it gets, but also like, the, the more I am power to break out of that cycle. I would say like, when I first started that journey of the group on therapy, it was Gary and guilt tea. Feels like, what am I doing with myself? And it's weird to say that, I think one is kind of like, you know, I feel like the stigma was so strong, because the way you know, general public see, therapy or you know, healing in like, mental health space is very like, like, you know, trapped, traumatized dramatize, like, yes. Like, you know, when we think of, like, healing as a group, we think of like, people in straitjacket, like, like, all the social, like all the media's that are portray of, like, you know, we Korea, it seems so drastic that I wasn't like, that was the fear of like, Oh, my God, am I going to be in a straitjacket and are going to be like you sitting there and just being with people who like it, just like all this negative stigma coming out? And I realize, Oh, my God, this is not good. And it was, the second piece was say, was guilt and that guilt, just kind of it just work, you know, like, am I leaving my team behind? Like, you know, am I taking this? Like, will it solve anything, when it comes back, go back to it, like, cause any problems? If I go back to work, I'm not going to get fire? Am I going to get laid off? Like, like, I'm not working. So like, like, all this, you know, upbringing and like, things that the parents were telling me, right, you know, like, all the lessons and the moral of the story, like so many, like different moral and story that, you know, came from my family, it's kind of like, I just like the complete opposite of that. And, and for the first like, I would say, like three weeks or so it was just succeeding with those skills. And like, even with the group therapy that I didn't, I didn't talk or anything, I feel like, I'm like, I was just there to get a feeling of like, what does it mean to have safe space? And am I there yet? And, like all I feel like the first three weeks like I was just sitting there and not not contributing any conversations, not understand what topic is critical, what's not critical to bring up not knowing how to validate folks, or how to feel validated, and feel supported. And it's simply just, they're just absorbing knowledge and is dropping knowledge and absorbing, like experiences of just being in a group setting.

Maryann Samreth 19:20

Yeah, it's you learning to do all of those things for the first time. Because it it's not things that are taught, it's not things that it teaches us, you know, everyone kind of pathologize is therapy, but like it should be seen, like going to a doctor for like, some physical illness that you have. Like, it's the same thing like going to therapy, going to group therapy. It's helping your brain it's helping your mind. It's helping your body. It's things that are inside you that you can't see, but it gets, you know, stigmatized because it's not visible, it's invisible, but because it's invisible, it means even more To take care of it and work on yourself. And I think that like being Cambodian, were very rare. I mean, my parents always taught, my mom always taught me to be self sufficient, you know, help everyone else, make sure to help everyone else and helping yourself. That's a foreign concept. So it makes sense that like, being in this space, where you are finally putting yourself first, you're finally helping yourself, you're just like, what, like, this is so far, and like this is so against everything, all I know, is to help others. So it makes sense like that guilt was was part of that journey. And, and that was part of you, you know, like, having that experience. That's just part of it. And that's okay. And that's allowed. And I'm glad that like you had the courage to, to do those things, because not everyone has that willingness. But you had that willingness to break this cycle. And even like, acknowledge, like, this isn't like what I want, like, I don't want to burn out anymore. And I think, you know, that was that, like, was burning out something that you kind of saw, like your parents, your family do, too. And this was kind of like a pattern that, you know, you're following and you're breaking? Yeah,

Sopheak Neak 21:16

like i i Looking back, like, I think so like, I think it's, I think burnout has been like a badge of honor. And it I think to this to this day, like, beyond even beyond my family, I think in Cambodian community, like it is a badge of honor, like, you know, coming in work before others and leaving work before others is like, one of the ingredients of like, the burnout. And we don't see that as unhealthy behavior, we see that as, you know, competitive edge that we put for ourselves, when we go to work. So like, I now see that it's, it's in, it's almost like, you know, it's it's very rooted in our culture. Yeah. And I think like, it's going to take, you know, conversation like this is going to take, you know, advocacy from a community, it's going to take like us to kind of like speak up for it, and, you know, normalize these kind of conversations to really break out of the pattern. And, and like something that kind of saddened me to this day was the fact that our community, Cambodian community, especially in the US, we sometimes don't know how to navigate to health care system. Yeah, it's weird, because like, when, when I was growing up, like, my parents would not let me play any sport, because they were like, you know, what happened if you break a bone, like, who's gonna pay for that? And it's like, so for some reason, we always see, like, medical insurance as not a not a preventive sort of like mechanism, but just like a, you know, it's something that we should avoid at all costs.

Maryann Samreth 23:06

Right? Right. It's like a weapon or something. Yeah,

Sopheak Neak 23:09

it's, it's, it's really like, I think it's saddened because like, we don't like I growing up, like, before, like, even dive into this, I never take a step to like go to see a doctor, like, I was, like, I feel fine. You know, it's just a call, takes like, over the counter medicine to get over that. So there's never a need to never have the knowledge to build a relationship with doctors to seek out help. Because like you said, we were taught to be self sufficient. We were taught that, you know, at least in Cambodia, like, you know, there, people don't go see Doctor unless they need to. And then I think like, it's the same sort of like, schema brought over to us. And then with the, you know, the price tag that US has put on health care. And the fact that it's not healthcare is not assessable to our community. It makes it even harder for our community to seek help, because we worry about that financial burden that we put on our family and our community.

Maryann Samreth 24:20

Yeah, it's it is very disheartening because our community needs it the most, especially mental health, but that's like the one thing that we all need, you know, to to navigate life after the genocide and it not being accessible to everyone and it being a privilege it's, it's, it's a very, you know, heartbreaking. How many people in our community like don't have that access to things that should be a human right. So I totally understand. Yeah, and it all of these experiences have, you know, made you such a huge advocate. You're huge advocate for mental health because of your experience and therapy, and it led you to creating Georgia Tech. Do you want to talk about your talk show and your plans? Yeah.

Sopheak Neak 25:12

It's a, it's a great caveat, I think JGit like, to the public seems like, you know, a safe space for individuals of like, Cambodian descent to really just practice being themselves. And that is the mission statement halfway right? To to just have to foster a safe space for individual components and to express their identity unconditionally. Like that is like the bio that I have with Jade. Yeah,

Maryann Samreth 25:43

what does it stand for? In case? No one knows what it stands for? or what have you?

Sopheak Neak 25:47

Yeah. Um, to Jade, in Cambodia, or modern, my, it's translated to converse, like casually, we typically use the word churches in a casual setting, not like a formal setting, you know, and this many different like, this many different way to translate like, converse, and talk. And what got me to choose to chair was the fact that it's, it's more casual. And then in Cambodia typically, like, when I remember growing up in Cambodia, it's just like, when we meet other people, we used to get like, you know, motor jet near like, oh, let's check, like, that's like the term that we use in Cambodia. And yeah, so like, I trade that space, to the public, it's a safe space for them. Between you, and I, it's also a safe space. For me. It's, it's something that, you know, like, what judges aim to do on for myself, is to create a structure where I could measure when my mental well being is not great. I think like, what judges forced me to do is putting myself at a place where I could connect to the people that I've passionate about, right. And the thing that I learned about mental well being, and you know, the range of depressions and PTSD, and all of those illnesses, is that depression sometime take away creativity and passion away from the person who's, you know, depressed. So, for me, like, I see judges as like, if I can, for some reason, keep up with it or lose interest in continuing it, there's got to be some environmental factors that play a role in that. And that would help me understand how do I recover if I go into a deeper state of depressions, and I can't keep up with your church, or like, you know, like, I like, it's something that I love, you know, it's kind of like, I don't have like, an artistic thing, like, you know, I don't have painting, I don't have like drawing or whatnot. So I feel like those are the thing that, you know, Chet is like, part of creativity outlet for me, yeah, is that creativity outlet is going away, then I know, like, okay, there's something off about me, and there's something of that I need to either take care of myself, or I need to, like, do something a little bit different, that enabled me to continue with that outlet. So that is the relationship that I have with churches, and the relationship that I'm hoping to bring to the public is just, you know, being ourselves. Yeah, I think like, we It's, um, so my experience growing up, like, there is not much of a safe space for people of my age, right. Like, I think like, you know, there, there's, this one is unsafe space for some, being Cambodian American, like, I don't know what, where to go to when I have these sort of, like, conversations that are more like American oriented than component oriented. Because like, for me, like when I think of like, component oriented, like, I would go to my family, because like, they would know more about Cambodian than, than I do. But when it comes to like, being American, or that intersection between American and Cambodia, I would not know where to go to, and I was hoping like, future will become that platform. And that space where people can just talk about things that they feel like they passionate about, or things that they feel like I'm frustrated about or things that they feel like you know, it's part of their identity and messages that they want to kind of give out to those, you know, in our community. You know, without having like any like, not like we're not having a big star or anything, just kind of like everyday people or just just being you know, like, this is us kind of like being in together.

Maryann Samreth 29:48

Yeah, I mean, I definitely feel that from you know, just being a guest on on your talk show and just the way you carry that platform. It is a safe space for people Love to be themselves and especially for Cambodian Americans, I think we all are challenged to express ourselves fully, and feel safe to do so. So I think it's amazing that you've created a place where we can all do that. And and I love that you are using this as kind of like, you know, checkpoints for yourself on your self care and healing journey, because we all should be doing things that bring us joy and comes easy to us and being creative. Because this talk show is like your way of, you know, truly expressing who you are into the world. And that's, that's so important. And I love that you adjust as needed to make sure that you're always doing things that you enjoy. Because I think, yeah, what helps, you know, like, getting out of a depressive funk is, you know, stepping away towards things that drain us. And remembering what brings us joy, and it's so hard to do. So I love that you're you created this platform that not just benefits you but also benefits others in the same way it brings you joy and being able to be yourself and also makes other people safe to be themselves because I felt so safe to like, say whatever I want.

Sopheak Neak 31:19

Man, like I think like, if there's any like, you know, testimonial or like that I would ask in the future, you mentioned the word safe, and that's good.

Maryann Samreth 31:29

Yeah, so you have an interesting experience as a Cambodian Americans, because I actually don't have a lot of Cambodian American friends that were born and raised in Cambodia, and then moved here. So your experience is, is very different from a lot of us that were born and raised here. Can you talk about that experience?

Sopheak Neak 31:49

Yeah, I think that that was one part of the reason why I was like, you know, in the the introduction, I mentioned specifically that, you know, Cambodian born American. And I think like, it's, it's a unique experience, at least for me, right. So I was born in Cambodia, and I've been living there for about 12 years before it came to the US. So I, I consider myself a family, an immigrant, or at least like me, being in the state is, you know, an act of immigrant, not like, like refugees. So that itself is like, I want to acknowledge that privileges that I have. Because I think that that people often don't acknowledge that. And I think the fact that we kind of like deny it kind of put us in a place of disagreement rather than a common ground. And so like, for me, like for when I was when I came here, like, I was privileged enough to know a little bit of English, right? Like in Cambodia, like, typically, I would go to like, my school for like, I don't know, how many hours a day, like probably eight hours a day. And then like the next two or three hours, I would spend study like English and English in Cambodia, it's really interesting. Because, like, it's, it varies depending on who's teaching the language. Right. So like, sometimes, like, you know, when I have English of like, a Cambodian who is teaching English, it's a it's more like, focusing on technicality. Like, focus on grammar, what it's like to like, properly create, you know, like non grammatically error words, or sentences. Other like more formal? Yeah, this this is the teachers who like came from like the UK. So there's, they brought like, different like, you know, slang or like accent and then this, so like, I for me, like, I didn't know this thing existence, y'all came to the US. I'm like, Oh, yes, this is not what I taught. English, you know, I don't like we don't spell color with you know, color.

Maryann Samreth 34:03

Speaking like all the English words, like the British words, I guess, into being introduced to slang.

Sopheak Neak 34:11

Exactly. And I think like, um, and from that experience, I just feel like, I think assimilating to like American English was, was itself like a journey. I think like, to this day, I feel like you know, I still have some sort of like Cuban accent, which I'm actively trying to like, be comfortable with it

Maryann Samreth 34:32

was like, Are you gonna say your race? You're gonna say, I love that. I love that you're not trying to change it because that shows your history you know? That

Sopheak Neak 34:43

it takes some time. I think like, it takes a lot of like, I think even like my fiancee like learning she wouldn't. She would continuously tell me like, I don't think you should worry about that. And I think it takes a lot of like, not only like self taught, but like validation to finally accept that. You know what Let me just follow up with an and instead of trying to improve it and try to be somebody differently, but going back to, like growing up in US was for like, I think like, since middle school to like the end of high school, I would feel like I'm just a foreign learn living in the US like, because like, every other year we would go to Cambodia. Like, I wouldn't really have close friends, like I still keep in contact with, you know, my best friend like in Cambodia. And so like, I would just feel like, okay, um, it's just like, I'm studying for, like, you know, nine months, and then like, going back to Cambodia at home to just be there for like, a month or something. Because, like, at the time, like, you know, it's crazy sometimes thinking about, like, you know, a breaks at school, like, I'm really good. Like, I wish you weren't have break like that. Yeah. And yeah, it wasn't until, like, I grew up like and went to college and start interacting with, you know, Cambodian American, when I realized, oh, gosh, like, I'm not like, I'm, I'm a citizen here. Like, this is like us is my home. And then like, I can't live at my home, if I don't acknowledging the issues around my surrounding my community and myself, right. So that's when I start, like, learning more about, you know, I'm really being open minded of just different identity under Cambodian umbrella, like Cambodian American understanding, like, you know, refugees versus immigrant understand, I asked for understanding like, you know, the model minority myth, understanding all of those things that in the past, I feel like I just deny, like, ignore because I'm like, oh, it's not me. If it's, like, I Yeah, it's, I'm not like American. So that was like, um, it's weird to mention that because like, it feels just like, God, like, it takes me that long. The same time, it's like, Ah, I'm glad that I figured that out a little bit earlier.

Maryann Samreth 37:07

I mean, that's amazing. Because a lot of us have the opposite problem. We, at least for me, I strongly identified with American culture, majority of my life, and now I'm Reclaiming my Cambodian identity. And it was like, the opposite problem that I had, I was just like, I don't know if I can call myself Cambodian. I grew up in like, a very white suburb, but and now I'm like, reclaiming it, did you grow up in a place that had a lot of Cambodian, like, friends, and was it was like, the place that you grew up, like,

Sopheak Neak 37:38

so this is where like, I have another like, fortunate, you know, occurrences in my life. Like, I grew up in this, like, neighborhood, come on Baker and Seattle. And when I came, I think like, 2007, it was not as dangerous as it was before. Like, before it came, like this neighborhood known for like, you know, like, it's gang infested. You know, only like I this things that are here from the past, like, only, like, you know, the, like the, I don't want to say worse, but like, less fortunate Cambodian would live here. And when I came, I think this were like, gentrification comes a little bit, or like, there's more neighborhoods, like opening up more section eight housing opening up in South Seattle, that people start to spread out to different area of Seattle. But for me at the time, like I was living with Southeast Asian community and my surrounding, but I would not interact with them, because my parents told me not to, like my family told me. They, they were saying that, you know, like, don't hang out with them, because they could begin like, I don't want like, I don't want you to, you know, get into that life or, like, do those things. So for like, again, like, like I said, like, I feel for him, because like, I would not interact with anybody. Yeah, my neighbor. Because like, that's, that's what I was raised with. I was like, don't, don't engage, because that you never know what happened, you engage. And you know, it's like this, like, again, like fear as like a factor when it comes to like making decisions. And that that is, like, manifests into like, I guess, like where I am now.

Maryann Samreth 39:16

Yeah, I mean, that makes sense. Because like, well, you'd be like other they wouldn't let you interact with other Cambodians like outside your family, or just like, Yeah, I think that makes sense. Well, because like the Khmer Rouge was Cambodians against Cambodians. So it like, that's like that fear of being passed down to you is like, because they feared you know, they didn't know who to trust within their community that they pass it on to so it makes sense. And it's, you know, like now we're all breaking out of that. And I think it's so important that like, you share your individual experience, because I think like we all have all had our own experience of you know, breaking apart from our our Cambodian identity and then Coming back to it. And it sounds like that's, you know, that's what has happened to you too.

Sopheak Neak 40:04

Yeah, it's definitely something that I think like, I understand where they're coming from. And this is something that I think like, it's great that you mentioned it because like, if we don't acknowledge that I think we may feel resentful to a family and to like, the past, but at the same time, I think like, it's, it's become more and more apparent of like, the outcome and the result coming from those trauma, and then we just never get a chance to heal. And I think like, we're all on this journey of healing. And part of that is, you know, connecting back with our community connecting back with some familiar familiarity we have that we don't see at home, like we see at home, or we don't see in the community and, and that that is like itself, like is empowering.

Maryann Samreth 40:51

Yeah, like we are healing and connecting the dots and even like learning things about like, the our culture and or the traumas and learning all of that and why it happened, why we grew up the way we grew up and accepting it. That's all part of the healing journey. And that's something that we all learn on our own time to become, you know, the person we are today and to be our to be the version of, you know, Cambodian American defined by our individual experience. So what what would you say, being a my American, what does that mean to you today?

Sopheak Neak 41:28

Yeah, to today, I think like, being my American, a Cambodian American just means, you know, carrying our name and being able to be ourselves unconditionally. I think like, there isn't a specific traits that determine whether we Cambodian or not, like, I feel like Cambodian is a spectrum. And I think like, even the fact that, you know, my name is Sapir and your name is Maryann like, that itself is like, collodion, the last name that we carry is Cambodian, and whether like, you know, other except, or like, you know, acknowledge that we can go and we are and I think like just being able to be comfortable with ourselves and acknowledging like our heritage and acknowledging the journey that our family has went through and our community has went through make me Cambodian American. Yeah,

Maryann Samreth 42:26

I beautifully said it's the it's all of us are the same, right. At the end of the day, we all have have had our you know, our experiences of coming back to our culture and our stories and being ourselves is what makes us Cambodian, American. And now, so many of us are, you know, taking up space and being you know, entrepreneurs, and I know you have a new business venture. So we'd like to talk about your upcoming project. Yeah, so

Sopheak Neak 42:57

like, I I recently found it Summer Tour, which in Cambodian translated to equity. And this is like, we coined the term of the, we call ourselves like a collaboration company. Because like, what we aim to do, and this is the vision statement for like Tamatoa is to foster like economic inclusions and social driven changes through giving an empowerment for community of competent person in Southeast Asian allies. It's a little bit more subtle thing, but but the goal is that that is going to be like our campus, there's going to be like where we hope to die when it comes to like investment in our own like monetary value into a project or like our investment in services into the community. And that is just how we see it like um, and one reason I started that venture was just I don't know what it's like to take up space in like a non POC world.

Maryann Samreth 44:00

But there needs to be more of us. Yeah,

Sopheak Neak 44:03

like I think like navigating through what it's like to start a business navigating through what it's like to you know, get a loan for for business rather than a loan for personal like what is like just navigating through the system as we're like, you know, as an American like so that we are American but we just haven't be able to like you know, use those privileges that we have to our advantage we like sometimes I think like we it sometimes put us in disadvantage, or like I don't know sometimes society is pushing far far away into like getting answers to those and oh, yeah,

Maryann Samreth 44:35

they don't like the smell. We live in corporate they call it corporate America. So it's

Sopheak Neak 44:41

weird like I think like American Dream sometimes just mean a corporate corporate America dream.

Maryann Samreth 44:47

Right now it's small business America dreams. That's what we're moving towards. Well, hopefully. Well, that's so exciting. I wish you all the best on your new business venture and like the fact that You are creating this to create a social, you know, change in the world, it makes sense that all of your experiences with burnout and starting your mental health journey has led you to your purpose of, you know, creating a new business venture where you get to create more of a social change in the world. So I'm so excited to see where that goes. So I have two last questions for you. What, what do you wish the world has more of?

Sopheak Neak 45:30

Oh, acceptance, I think like, I wish the world has more room for acceptance. Because I feel like if there's no acceptance, maybe there's no agreement or common ground. And sometime like, I understand why, you know, particular like why sometimes it will shift away from accepting you could still, like, Mother Earth don't have the capacity to, to do so. But I think like if we able to carve space for acceptance, it would make it a little bit more bearable for us to kind of live together.

Maryann Samreth 46:13

Yeah, definitely. And acceptance for everyone's, you know, individualism to like, I think that's a big part is just like, we're all different, and accepting that it's okay to just be individual people. And we're all like, at the end of day, we're all humans too. So it's just having acceptance for each other. And the way we are just creates a more compassionate world.

Sopheak Neak 46:39

Yeah, like, I definitely see, like acceptance as like, a main motivator for a main factor to drive like, supportive ecosystem, right? Because it's hard to support other if we don't accept their story.

Maryann Samreth 46:58

Yeah. And it also Yeah, sorry, go on. Yeah, it's

Sopheak Neak 47:02

kind of like we're not. And this is what I learned about, like, in the group therapy was that, you know, supporting invalidation is really just us giving that space for the person we talking to, and US acknowledging and trying to understand from the standpoint rather than us trying to compare, you know, our suffering with their suffering and say, Hey, this worked for me why she doesn't work for you. So it must be you that this wrong. So like, the I feel like the only way to even start supporting other is that we accept their story. And we accept and we acknowledge that, you know, no matter of the church, the preconceived judgment be half on their suffering, it is their suffering. And it it, we may not even know like how greatly it affects them, because we're not in their shoes.

Maryann Samreth 47:51

Yeah, powerful, very powerful. And I think it's, it starts from accepting ourselves, right? Like, that's where your journey started accepting that you had burnout, accepting that there were these parts of your history that led you here, and you're able to accept others that and from the way you've accepted and taken care of yourself and put yourself first. So it starts from accepting yourself, but which was your journey, and you're able to accept other people and create a safe space to continue spreading that acceptance. So I love that. That's amazing. So my last question for you is, what advice do you have for anyone on their healing journey?

Sopheak Neak 48:35

Oh, you can make really hard questions. Um, I think like, um, I would say, like, begin or carve a support system, with what you have, I think, like, you know, like, without a support system, it's really, really challenging to acknowledge ourselves. I'm not saying that it's impossible, but I'm saying like, it's extremely challenging because we are living in our world. And you know, it's our trauma that shaped the world that we think of so even if the world is even if we realistically are depressed, if our world doesn't perceive us depressed, we don't think that we are depressed. So by I think, like, by carving out a support system, whether that mean like you know, talking to a friend or talking to somebody in the family or your significant other, or strangers that you build connection with and feel safe having that space. That is a great start. Because like that would you know, providing like an opportunity for those who have traumas understand like how their behavior is like How the trauma responses appear to other and how other can help call that out. And help us be more aware of those things and eventually get to the point where we start to accepting like the challenges that we have and the trauma that we have. And then start looking for more additional support that we typically don't from the preconceived like world that we create, in our mind.

Maryann Samreth 50:26

Yeah, wow, that is really deep. But I mean, you saying like trauma shapes how you perceive the world, like that is sadly true. And it's so it's so like, the opposite of trauma is like safety, right? So finding at least one person that you can be honest about what's going on inside of you, because, like, the way you perceive the world is from what's happening inside of you. Right? So finding at least one person that that can see, you can give them a little, you know, sneak preview of your inner world, it's, you know, what is the safety of that everyone with healing from trauma needs, just finding like one person or are like me, and like, for me, I didn't have anyone, so I went to therapy and like, for you, you also like sought out therapy. So it's like, if you need if you guys need to seek a therapist or life coach or any type of coach, like that's also okay. But that is that is yeah, that is very, like, That's great advice, like, so simple. Like, you know, picture you have, like a safe person, but it means everything when you have at least, like one person that you can just show what's going on inside of you. And they can validate you and see you it's it's so true.

Sopheak Neak 51:45

Absolutely anything like it doesn't have to be like a friend, it could be like professionals who are in that space. And to me, like, you know, I think my fiancee to this day to kind of call me out on you know, why am I having dinner and not enjoying dinner, right?

Maryann Samreth 52:00

Oh, wow. That's awesome.

Sopheak Neak 52:03

More than at first, like, it seems like oh, you know, it, whatever. But then like it, keep the comment keep coming in again and again. And then that's when I realized, okay, like if something is off, and then Yeah, so like, you know, kudos to her and really appreciate her support to this to this day. And sometimes, like there's therapists that do help with that, too, like, a friend of mine has to that therapist told him that you know, you, you have to promise me that you don't do anything crazy, if you want to see me. And that commitment is really strong. Because then like, yeah, that's a whole nother separate like story. But it's just like, I think like having that person or that group of people, whether it's whoever that is that you feel safe connecting with and expressing your concern and have a space to validate that for them to validate you. Yes, that that is, I think that's a great start.

Maryann Samreth 52:55

Yeah, it's so important to have defined people that nourish you in the way that that you need to so that is incredible advice. Thank you so much for coming on this show. And how can my listeners follow you find you stalk you?

Sopheak Neak 53:13

Oh, like I like, you know, first and foremost want to thank you, Maryann, for bringing me into the show. Like, like for those listening, you know, feel free to kind of follow me on like, let's underscore Jade, like J orj. Ek. And to be honest, I think like, you know, we're, we're bound to each other one way or the other. Yeah, like, I'm sure like, this is not like one of the first you know, that, like Maryann, I connect, I'm sure there's more opportunity for us to connect. So like this is just a start.

Maryann Samreth 53:45

More collaboration for sure. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on my show and telling your story and giving some amazing advice. So for people on their healing journey, just I just want to thank you for for being so vulnerable and honest here. In any do you have any last words or anything else you want to talk about?

Sopheak Neak 54:03

Um, I would just say keep tuning in to like, mental breakthrough.

Maryann Samreth 54:06

And your your talk show?

Sopheak Neak 54:10

I think like, you know, Maryann, you do an amazing job of just like, you know, putting everybody in a journey. And I think despite the like whether people tell you another thing, you're creating an impact on somebody out there. Um, so thank you and just just thank you for all you do.

Maryann Samreth 54:29

Thank you so much. Well, likewise, I'm gonna give you compliments right back you're doing the same thing so it's, it's it's really nice to know I'm not doing this work alone. Like there's many of us with the same mission and purpose to make the world a better place. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you. We all have a story Ready to tell. I want to thank you for listening to suspects journey. I'm MaryAnn somatic trauma training coach and founder of sincerely Miss Mary. I hope this episode inspired you to be your most authentic self in this world and give yourself compassion on the journey of healing. Be kind to yourself. All of his information will be on the show notes and episode web page. Please follow him and support his work and mission degree a world of acceptance and some important news within sincerely Miss Mary. I am now offering one on one somatic wellness writing coaching sessions. What are these? Exactly So in these sessions, I will be guiding you through a somatic writing exercise to move you forward from the stories you tell yourself. You will leave at writing tools as a companion for your healing journey. More details of this will be in my show notes as a reminder, and also this is not a replacement for therapy. I'm not a licensed therapist, I'm a coach. So what I do is I help you move you move you forward from the stories that you tell yourself and I will also help you build tools to add throughout your healing journey. If you like this episode, please leave me a review on Apple podcast and follow me on there as well as Spotify. Thank you so much for listening and I will talk to you guys soon.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai