S2:E23: The Path To Resiliency With Childhood Trauma Survivor Sophia Ou

Trigger Warning: Childhood Sexual Abuse, Addiction, Trauma

In the first episode of season 2, I interview Sophia Ou, host of Diaspeiro Podcast, 2nd generation Khmer-Chinese American, and a trauma therapist in training. She shares her story of healing from childhood sexual abuse, breaking harmful generational patterns, and reclaiming the power of her voice. She now dedicates her life to helping others through their healing journey and the path to resiliency.

If this episode was at all distressing to you, please reach out to the 24/7 national crisis hotline at 1-800-273-8255. To reach a 24/7 crisis counseling texting hotline send “HOME” to 741741 (valid for the US and Canada).

Additional resources for support:
https://www.rainn.org/
https://www.shatteringthesilence.org/

Guest Bio:
I’m Sophia Ou and I am a second-generation Khmer-Chinese American. I am a counselor in training pursuing my Master's in Clinical Mental Health Counseling. Long term, I hope to be a trauma therapist. I am the podcast host of Diaspeiro Podcast where I seek to highlight marginalized BIPOC voices in the diaspora. My identity as a child of refugees and genocide survivors drives me to empower others to gain their sense of agency back through storytelling.

Follow Her Instagram:
@Diaspeiropodcast

Contact Sophia:
To share your story and be a guest on her show
diaspeiropodcast@gmail.com

Transcript:

Maryann Samreth  00:00

Welcome to mental breakthrough, a mental health podcast about owning our most vulnerable stories. As a reminder, we are all human. I'm MaryAnn Samreth, trauma training coach, founder of sincerely Miss Mary and your host. This season I bring in healers, coaches, therapists and writers in the mental health and thought leadership space to share their stories of overcoming their shadows, to get to a place where the light shines again. These are trauma survivors, mental health advocates, spiritual guides, coaches, and first and foremost, human beings, reminding us to be softer and kinder to ourselves, so we can then meet others with the same compassion. The power and sharing our truths with the world gives permission for others to feel safe experiencing theirs. As a disclaimer, this podcast is not a replacement for trauma informed therapy. But as always, you can find mental health resources on my website at www that sincerely, Miss mary.com. Easier advocates Welcome to Season Two of mental breakthrough podcast. In today's episode, episode one, I interview Sophia Wu host of DS barrel podcast. She's a second generation my Chinese American pursuing her master's in clinical mental health counseling and is on her way to becoming a trauma therapist. Trigger warning we will be discussing sexual abuse childhood trauma in addiction. If these topics are triggering for you, please be discerning in listening to this episode. Sophia shares her story of healing from child sex abuse. She bravely walks us through her healing journey, the harmful patterns she broke out of breaking generational trauma, and her path of reclaiming the power of her voice to be the person she is today. This is a story of her humaneness resiliency and persistence to keep moving forward and now help others through their healing journey. Please honor Sophia in this episode, her truths will help others feel less alone, seen and validated. Talking about her things makes them more compassionate world, which is my mission with this podcast. This is Sofia's story. Hi, everyone. Welcome to a mental breakthrough podcast. Today's guest is Sophia Wu. She is a second generation my Chinese American and she's a counselor in training pursuing to be a trauma therapist, which is so needed right now. She is also the podcast host of diaspora podcast where she seeks to highlight marginalized bipoc voices in the diaspora. Her identity is a child of refugees and genocide survivors. Oh shit.

Sophia Ou  03:22

What the heck?

Maryann Samreth  03:25

The lights just turned off. Fuck it, whatever.

Sophia Ou  03:30

Now you're about to get murdered now. I'll just do it in the dark. What?

Maryann Samreth  03:36

I'm keeping this in. I'm not cutting this out. Um, yeah, by the way, guys, I'm recording this in a wine cellar because I'm in a co working space. I can't do this podcast in my parents home. So I'm in a wine cellar at this co working space. Anyways, we have my dear friend Sophia, and she's going to talk about her. She's gonna tell her story today and how she became the person she is. And she is this badass trauma informed therapist in training decolonizing mental health and taking up space in the world as a bi American, which is so needed. So Sofia, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing today? Hi.

Sophia Ou  04:22

Hi, hi. All right, a little nervous. You know, I'm always like listening to other people talk about their stories. And I'm like, I guess this is kind of, I guess my first time publicly sharing like, my own story. So I'm a little nervous, but you know, I'm going okay. This is your time and space to tell your story. And this is me passing my mic to you. So I'm so excited that you're here and you are my first podcast interview for season two. So this is a big deal. No pressure. Just kidding. Yeah, I appreciate the space that you're creating for us to to

Maryann Samreth  05:00

Talking about mental health journey and all of those things. I'm sorry, you're talking to me and just like dying right now, but it's kind of making me feel less nervous too, because I haven't. I don't usually do interviews. Um, I It's like, also low podcast. So I'm excited to bring in people and have them tell their story. So let's start by you telling your story. How, what was your healing journey? Like, and how did you become the healing person you are today?

Sophia Ou  05:31

Oh, that's a that's a really good question. Yeah, um, well, I guess I could start with, I guess my family is kind of where I where it would make sense to start. Um, so basically, my my family are refugees from Cambodia. And my parents survived the Cambodian genocide. And so they fleed Cambodia, about in the early 80s, and sought refuge in the US. So that's kind of like their background, I'm a second gen. So that means that I was born here. And first generation American second gen, my Chinese American, my parents have separate refugee stories. And so they met in the US. And I probably won't go into too much detail. But um, but considered, but considering the cultural context, and their traumatic experiences, obviously, greatly impacted me as a first gen American navigating life as a child. So just just keeping that in mind. So a lot of my childhood was pretty chaotic, I would say, very hostile, very hostile environment, it was very hard to be to be to feel safe. And where I had grown up, and so there was a lot of abuse, whether it was physically emotionally, and a lot of guilt tripping. And so like, my mother was mostly operating out of her own woundedness and her own trauma, where I was basically like her punching bag. And so just pretty much being, being that person that she took her anger out on, whenever she was upset, and then, but then the next hour, she would kind of act like nothing happened. So it was a lot of like, it, it was very abrupt in the way that she treated me. So like when it came to love and nurture, it was only at the cost of me doing something of me being rewarded for being a good child. And so that's kind of that's kind of like my family upbringing. And not to say that, like, my mother is like, this terrible person, but like, understanding that in the bigger context of our family that she was operating out of her own woundedness, right. So for me, um, I had like, so I had always also experienced, like, a peace within the family. But then I had a single mom growing up as well. So my dad wasn't really in the picture he had left when I was about nine years old, and my family split. And so it was just me and my brother, my mom, and then, and then my mom had both my parents had remarried. And so and so when my mom had remarried, basically, this, this new person who came in became my abuser, essentially. And so I was sexually abused when I was about nine years old. So, so I just about fourth grade, fifth grade, so I was pretty young. And, and this, this had been going on for a while, like, I don't remember, like how long it went for i It's very much like, blocked in my mind. So I can only, I don't really know how long it went on for but it was multiple times. And so and so like, I didn't actually tell anyone until I was a freshman in high school. And so it was about, it was about like four years of, of me just suppressing it and not telling anyone, mostly because I thought I thought it was my fault. I thought, like, I had responsibility, and I could have stopped it. Like I had some agency in it. And that was my belief for a long time, which is why I didn't tell anyone about it. And so I obviously carried like a lot of shame and a lot of stuff blame throughout with throughout my healing journey as well. And so that's kind of when I started going to therapy because it was just required for me to go by the state and DCFS and so I started going to therapy when I was 15 years old. And that was kind of when I started working through like a lot of like, my relationship with my mom. My relationship with my family and just understanding like the bigger picture of who I was and kind of of why I was behaving the way I was. So, yeah, that's kind of when my mental health, I guess, quote, my mental health journey kind of started. And, yeah, it was a lot of sifting through learn behaviors, it was a lot of learning what it means to have a healthy relationship, what it means to establish boundaries, what it means to have a sense of myself a sense of agency, and kind of dealing essentially, like gaining back my voice, because I had been silenced for so long and really quiet about it for so long. But I would say like, the first part of therapy from age like 15, to 17 was mostly about my relationship with my mom, because it was very, it was very much strained, mostly because of cultural differences. With me growing up in America, and she being more traditional. And so, and also just having really rent rigid gender roles in the house. And so like, as a woman, I was supposed to stay home, I was supposed to do the chores, I wasn't supposed to go out or have friends, let alone even talk to boys. Whereas like, my brother could just do whatever the heck he wanted. And he had all the freedom and like, everything that he could do was because he was a boy so so there's just a lot of that that was happening, and which was contributing to my depression as well on top of everything else that happened. And I was also just very suicidal. In high school. I had I never had a plan or intent to carry it out kit, but I did struggle a lot with like suicidal ideation. Yeah, that was kind of like the start of my healing journey.

Maryann Samreth  11:46

So much for sharing and being so vulnerable. And that's the thing when we have those experiences, as children, we internalize it, and there is a lot of self blame. Did you realize at the time when you were being sexually abused that it was sexual abuse when you were nine years old? Or did you know that it was wrong? Or what was your thought process into, you know, finding the courage to tell someone when you were a freshman?

Sophia Ou  12:15

Yeah, that's a really good question. I, I guess, when I was a kid, like, I knew, like, there was something wrong with it. But I, but I, I really didn't know. Like, it was just a very innocent, like, what is this, like, what's going on here? Um, because like, we learned a lot about like, sexual harassment and like, in school, but like, not about, like abuse, or like, you know, assault and stuff like that. So I didn't really have a full understanding when it when it was happening. But I think, I think as I grew older, and I learned that it was wrong. I eventually, like started telling, like, my friends, or maybe my partners, or I was with and, and I think that was kind of Yeah, I mean, I guess I knew, like, I always knew it was wrong, but I didn't fully know the depth, the depth of how wrong it was because I was so young. And, and mostly because like, I did blame myself for it. Right? That makes sense. I don't know if I answered your question.

Maryann Samreth  13:12

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. We don't have the language until we grow up to realize what happens, what happened to us, and what was the experience of having, you know, to work on that healing relationship with your mom? Did you ever you know, start to blame her when when you you know, were fully able to like, understand what happened?

Sophia Ou  13:34

Um, oh, that's a hard. That's a hard question. Um, I would say, it was hard. It was really hard because like, because, like, I felt really Yeah, I did feel like really betrayed by her. Um, but I didn't like feel like it was her fault, right. But I thought betrayed and the way that she handled it. Yeah. So like, part of that was like, like, she constantly asked me if I was lying. So like, and so like, I just felt really betrayed by my family. And so I just decided, like, okay, like, I have no one. So, yeah. Alright, so I'm never gonna, like, I don't have anyone to support me. So that's fine. Like, okay, then I only have myself. So then I just decided to just really not talk about it with anyone. And just decide to deal with it on my own and with my therapist, so like, eventually, like, that kind of led to a lot of trust issues with everyone. So yeah, yeah,

Maryann Samreth  14:30

of course. Of course. So sorry. I didn't mean to make you cry.

Sophia Ou  14:34

No, you're fine. That was like an that was just a deep question.

Maryann Samreth  14:42

Thank you for because I think, I think a lot a lot of us by Khmer Americans have very tumultuous relationships with our parents, even to this day, even as adults. I mean, I I go through the same thing with my my parents too. And it's hard to healing the mother wound is, is really difficult. So I commend you for being brave enough to be doing that work and also being able to talk about it because that is not easy to do. And even you telling me that, like, it opens my heart up to like, the experiences I have had with my own mom, and, you know, continuing to do that work to to heal that wound to it because I personally, that wound is deeper than my father wound. Again, the mom wound is is so is so deep. So I really commend you for for doing that work, because I think any healing with with our family leads to freedom, it leads to freedom to be ourselves and truly move forward. So thank you for for going there with me.

Sophia Ou  15:59

Absolutely. No, I appreciate the space in the safety that you that you're creating as well.

Maryann Samreth  16:05

Yeah. And you talked a lot about, you know, having a lot of these cycles and patterns that you broke out of? What were some of those experiences, like when you were acknowledging that you were in this pattern? And you said, No, I will not continue this.

Sophia Ou  16:27

Um, yeah. So basically, as a result of like the abuse I had gone through, I was basically in and out of abusive relationships, through high school, all throughout college. I eventually it led to me being victimized when I was 19. And so that after the victimization, I went back to therapy after taking a break, when I had gone to college. And I realized that like, there's something like, like it's coming up again. And there's something that I need to work through in therapy, and so and so I also had like a sex addiction as well, as a result from the abuse. And so I had a very, I had a very unhealthy view of sex. And so I was in therapy for for that that summer, I think going into the year of my freshman year of college or going into sophomore year, I think. And I was working through a lot of like, the issues that I had with emotionally connecting with people. And I, it was very easy for me to dissociate, it was very easy for me to emotionally disconnect from people and cut people off. And I really feared emotional intimacy most for the most part. And then also, I didn't think that sex was important. Like, I didn't think it was sacred, it was just something that you did something that you did for fun, like, like, literally going to go get ice cream, or like going to a park like just like an activity or a hobby did. And so I didn't really put any value on that. And so it was a lot of like, demystifying that in therapy and understanding that like, a lot of like, a lot of what had happened to me had transferred into my relationships. So like, an example that my therapist had talked about was because you were still living with your abuser, you know, four years after it happened. Like you, you have the tendency to stay in abusive relationships, even when you know what's bad, because because you have to survive that right. And so and so that was kind of like, underlying the pattern of like, Oh, I know, this person is bad for me, but I'm going to stay anyway. I, I know all the signs. But like, this is more comfortable. This is more familiar to me. And so a lot of a lot of what we work through in therapy was like being being comfortable with the uncomfortable because I had been so comfortable with the boy who treated me like shit, right? I had been so comfortable with the boy who manipulated me and who hit me who, like was controlling was really insecure. But I didn't know how to act when someone genuinely cared for me genuinely wanted to show me that they didn't want anything in return. And they just want they just want to do something for me because they cared for me. And so that was very, very uncomfortable for me. And so whenever like someone came along and was like, I just want to be your friend, not because I want anything in return. But because I just generally like like you as a person, I would immediately push that person away and like cut them off. I'm like, What the fuck do you want for me? Like, what do you want for real? Like, do you need something and so that would be my response. Like, in like my early 20s was like I was very hostile. I was very angry. I didn't have any close relationships because I just didn't want people to get close to me. And so it was working through all those like intimacy See emotionally intimacy, intimate? Emotionally, it was working to emotional intimacy within my social relationships, but then also within like, with my partners as well. So, yeah, so that was kind of one of the cycles that I had broken because like, within my within my family system, like there was a lot there was domestic violence at home. And so, you know, I had witnessed, like, my mom getting hit, right. And so it was just like, my dad was abusive. So it was just like, that was a big part of our family. And that was very normalized. And so like, I obviously, I would choose partners who were like my dad, right, I would choose partners who were abusive, so it was just like, Mom was abused, I was abused, like, and so when I had realized that, like, I was in the cycle. I had to, like, take a step back, and just, like, literally just recognize the signs, but and then just, honestly go to therapy. Yeah, I would say like, um, yeah, and so like, for me, it was like, the, me the thing I had to practice was emotionally connect with the person before, before there's any physical, like, there's any physical intimacy, right. And so I had to practice that a lot. And it was really hard. But like, that was kind of the first steps into breaking the cycle, because like, my parents, both my parents are known for, they're known for suppressing their emotions, they're known, they're known for disconnecting from their emotions, and, and, like, my therapist was helping me realize that, like, I could be different from this, like, these are the patterns I've taken with me, but like, I doesn't have to be that way.

Maryann Samreth  21:42

That's amazing. And like, it's, it's not just like, she wasn't just, she wasn't just a compass. But you had that willingness in you to say no, like, this ends with me and to look at all of your past experiences and say, I don't want this for myself. So that I think your willingness is very powerful. I think that shows like, how strong you are to be able to like, look at these patterns and break it and go towards the, you know, relationships that are healing for you. And that is uncomfortable. I'm in a healing relationship. It is uncomfortable, a if it's hard. Mm hmm. And you're now married to a very healthy person. What was that experience, like when you entered a relationship that was healing and healthy and safe?

Sophia Ou  22:32

Oh, before I answer that question, I think what else I wanted to add was in therapy, we talked a lot about getting my voice back, because I had been silent for so long. And so. And so what empowered me to get my voice back was I became a part of this nonprofit organization that advocated for sexual assault survivors, and during one of our events, actually publicly shared my story in a performance, and that kind of became also became a catalyst for my healing journey. And for me, to get my voice back and kind of break that cycle of like, women being silenced.

Maryann Samreth  23:09

Wow, actually, I want to hear more about this performance. What What was this? What was it like? Like, how was that experience for you? Because it is powerful. When you get up on stage. And you tell your truth. And you don't even care what happens? You You're reclaiming your power. And in that moment, it's incredibly powerful for you to reclaim your identity as well.

Sophia Ou  23:34

Yeah, I would say I was really scared. But I felt like I had never felt like I had a voice in the relationships I was in. And so I thought, and so after, had gotten out the last abusive relationship, I just was like, I've had enough. And I it was just honestly, it was just fire, like, so like, I got up on stage. And like, yeah, add this piece of paper, like, and I just started, you know, reading from it and telling my story. And I think the most powerful thing was like, my mom and my brother, were there.

Maryann Samreth  24:04

They were there? Oh, wow.

Sophia Ou  24:08

And, and they came back on stage and like, they were crying that is and they didn't, they didn't realize like, how much it impacted me. And like how much I was struggling. And so I it was just kind of like a moment of like, wow, I didn't like hearing from my family. I'm so sorry. Like, I didn't know that. You went through that. Right that it affected you. So that was my 19 year old self.

Maryann Samreth  24:39

You were 19?!

Sophia Ou  24:41

yeah. So Wow. This is cool. I never like told anyone this before.

Maryann Samreth  24:48

Like, is that performance recorded? I knew where it is. Yeah, it is. You need to bring that to some make a viral tic tok or something That's amazing. I mean, I would love to see that performance. That is incredibly powerful. And I'm like crying here too. That is incredibly powerful. And I'm sure that was, you know, just for your family to see that was probably them seeing you hearing you. And validating you for the first time probably.

Sophia Ou  25:24

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It really was.

Maryann Samreth  25:27

Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. So let's talk about your husband. What was the healing relationship? Like, um, you know, after you went through this journey of breaking out of that abuse cycle, and becoming a huge advocate for sexual assault survivors, and going on stage and performing and what was this journey of healing your relationship with it with intimacy, not just, you know, sex, but like, emotional intimacy, and, you know, really creating meaningful relationships in a way where you put yourself first.

Sophia Ou  26:05

Yeah, so yeah, so a big part of meeting my husband was like, their spiritual journey that I had went on in finding healing in my early 20s was like, after years of therapy, and like, lots of lots of work, lots of boundary work, lots of book reading, and self help books. I had found myself at like, a point in my life where I felt like I didn't have any more purpose. And I just was looking for more hope, more hope in something bigger than myself. Because it just felt like I still was walking around really feeling really empty. Even though I felt like, even though I felt like I had answers to things, I still felt really empty. And so I started going to church. And I found faith in God and Jesus. And so that that's kind of where, in that I had, you know, found a healing, I would say, I had found a place to heal from, from, like, the intimacy issues, but then also understanding like that sex was like, sacred and like, was purposeful, for someone that like I really loved. Because I had never really believed that still, I still didn't really think much about it. And so I felt like that kind of fueled my relationship with sex as well. And my view of sex because it was very, I was very much dysphoria. Like, I didn't believe in commitment I didn't believe in Yeah, I didn't believe in commitment. So like, I was out here, like, you know, going out to bars and doing whatever the hell I wanted. And so yeah, item. And so kind of, like, my faith journey helped me see like, the value of other people like, right, and the value of like, sex with that person. So yeah, and, and so I met my husband at church, and he is basically like, the complete opposite of me, like, hasn't experienced any childhood trauma hasn't ever dated anyone. So it was just like, a really different contrasting experience that was very much like unfamiliar, unfamiliar territory, because I had like, experience like, a lot of life.

Maryann Samreth  28:23

Right?

Sophia Ou  28:25

Yeah, I would say it was hard. It was hard because I had carried a lot of shame, still a lot of shame about my past and a lot of shame about what my life was like before. I had met him and so I think working through that with him, and being honest with him, helped me trust him more. And he was very much like non judgmental, like, totally secure and itself has secure attachment and just was like, oh, okay, yeah, yeah, like, like very affirming was like, like Toy it totally was just like, Wait, like, What? Are you spotting that way? How come you're not getting jealous when I talk about other guys? Like, how come? I've come here like, totally stay Lord.

Maryann Samreth  29:16

Why are you stable? What the fuck? Was it hard to like, receive the love he was giving you? Because it wasn't what you were used to?

Sophia Ou  29:28

Um, I would say yes or no, I would say he he was very gentle with me. He wasn't pushy. I would say the guys that were like the guys that were healthier that I dated were more pushy with me with like, you're not like I want to hear more from you. I want you to open up more to me like they would try to get me to open up but they weren't really giving me much agency to when I want to to open up. So I don't know if they were necessarily safe people than right but like, in contrast to what was before it was relatively safe. So So with my husband like he, yeah, he was very gentle. So he pretty much is waited for me to open up waited for me to share when I was ready when I had been processing things and so I really felt like I had a lot of freedom to come around whenever I did on and he also had had gone through his own process of like, with us like getting together as well, because he came from a very fundamental, fundamentalist Christian background that like really looked down on dating and dating was not the norm and their and their culture. So. So that was like, also kind of a learning curve for me and like for us, so like, we were actually friends for a long time. So we're so the friendship had helped me understand, like, what it meant to trust someone for a long time. And so like, it wasn't like we just jumped into a relationship. So like, I felt like we I was much more level headed, I had a much better sense of being able to emotionally like trust him as well. And so that was kind of a big part of it was just being friends first, that was healing the I felt like, Yeah, so basically, this relationship I had gotten into was just never anything like anything else. Because a lot of my past relationships were very much like diving deep, like when you meet them, like commit really quickly, but then ended up like being on a roller coaster, right? So like this very slow, slow burning.

Maryann Samreth  31:31

Yeah, that's, that's what you needed, you needed that safety ness and that protection for sta before you could, you know, dive in deeper, and be more open and be yourself. So I'm glad that you found someone that that could give you what you needed. And I think like that kind of love someone that gives you that space to for you just to be whatever you need to be at the moment is like, that's just like the beauty of unconditional love. And I think I don't think a lot of us, you know, really talk about that side of love it is giving that person you know, the space and the freedom to just evolve. So you guys like come together and evolve together and go on that journey together. So I think that's so beautiful.

Sophia Ou  32:19

Yeah, yeah. But I also want to voice for those who maybe have an extensive trauma history, as well as like, if you do end up with a partner who is securely attached, and has not experienced childhood trauma, like you might have a lot of feelings of anger and resentment. Or maybe a it might remind you, or their family might remind you of your attachment wounds. And like, I want to validate that because because there's a lot of grief that comes with being reminded of like, the things that you didn't have, right. And yeah, that's a completely normal response, especially like, if your partner doesn't really fully like understand what we've gone through.

Maryann Samreth  33:03

Right. That's, that is very true. And that's something like I've experienced too is jealousy, I guess? Yeah, a lot of jealousy. Like, oh, I've seen white picket fence like, family. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I totally get it. And it is valid, because it's everyone's a mirror. And it's not like there's anything wrong with them. They just they do trigger what you didn't get as a child. And it's all it's okay to have those feelings, too. It's okay to like, continue that grief because I think healing relationships. So what's what someone that has a secure attachment, it leads you, it triggers you in a way that you realize you need to heal further. And that is all okay, because, you know, we have these experiences of you know, traumatic childhoods is healing is freedom. So when we find someone that that can be that mirror for us, even if it's hard, and it's challenging, like that's something that is part of our path and part of our journey to get that inner peace and it's not forever to so like, I'm not still jealous all the time. My friends, so it definitely it's, I think it's the beginning, like when you meet when you date someone with a secure attachment style for the first time. And they're different than like any other partner you've had. It's you grieve for the first time in a way that like no one has shown you before because but no one can no one who has been that mirror until now. So like, in a way like it, like you kind of had to be in that relationship with a secure person to reflect on that wound that you had. Otherwise, you might continue to just like, suppress it or like maybe it'll come out like later and like a bigger way because like when we have those We're on this end, like, we don't like shine a light on it. Like I feel like it, the impact of it is bigger the older we get, right? Does that make sense?

Sophia Ou  35:10

Yeah, yeah, it's like, you keep covering up the moon. But really you keep doing it deeper and deeper, that wound just festers and grows over time if you don't look at it.

Maryann Samreth  35:20

Exactly. So what, um, what was your experience of deciding to become a therapist?

Sophia Ou  35:30

Oh, yeah. So I think because of my, my experience, my first therapist when I was in high school, she had really helped me through a lot of a lot of things like, which led up to like, the speech and like leading up to college. And so I felt like I really, like wanted to be that person as well for someone else. And I had always been interested in psychology when I was in high school. So I majored in psychology when I was an undergrad. And then eventually, like, I wanted, I was also an athlete. So I also had like a running addiction in college, and so like, I, you know, I was on the cross country team and track team in college, and I was running like 40 miles a week. And like, not, yeah, it was not resting well, and but it was like my way of coping, in high school and in college. And that's kind of what God got me through my mental health journey, as well as like, I was a really avid runner. And so then I eventually kept getting injured because I kept over running. And so I got into physical therapy. So I actually kind of switched my majors. But then eventually, being in the physical therapy field, I realized, like how much people had issues with their mental health, and like, actually had, like anxiety, manifesting his neck pain, you know, and seeing and seeing that, like, oh, like, or because of their physical, you know, ailments, they have mental health issues. So I was like, Oh, I'm still interested in like, mind, body and soul. So yeah, that was kind of like the turning point. Two years after undergrad that I was like, I think I'll just go to school for for mental health counseling. So that's kind of where I'm at now.

Maryann Samreth  37:13

Yeah. And how has that has your healing journey coincided with your education on, you know, these modalities of healing, trauma and working on mental health?

Sophia Ou  37:27

Yeah, so a lot, I would say, my program is very much inner inner focus. So like focused on your own experience, and your own self reflection of the things that you need to work through in order to work with your clients. So a big part of a bar, a big, a big part of that experience was working through my racial and ethnic identity in in my program, because we had taken a diversity class. And it made me realize how much internalized oppression I had about about my own culture. And so and so also made me realize, like, the impact of like, generational trauma, right along with that, and understanding that, you know, my individual trauma, like happens within a generation, it's not just me, but it's like, throughout the generations. And so, I did not learn this in my program, because, because most programs aren't very tailored to trauma, which they should be, but

Maryann Samreth  38:31

anyone who's listening, maybe writes the DSM,

Sophia Ou  38:36

the DSM needs to catch up, but like, anyway, um, so, so basically, um, I, so I just started, like, looking at work, like Chicago minds is a really great resource for practitioners who have, like focus on inclusivity, but then also like, decolonizing, mental health, and also our trauma informed and so I started like, taking workshops with them, I took a workshop on being a child of refugees, and, you know, the ambiguous grief that comes with that. And then I started taking like workshop and like, polyvagal theory and understanding, like, how our nervous system is really tied to our experiences. So like, so like, we dissociate or like, like, there are certain symptoms that actually guide us to the real problem. And they're, they're all like adaptive strategies. So it's from a very resilience and strength based approach that I thought like, you know, I didn't really learn in my program because it was very CBT oriented, cognitive behavioral therapy oriented, and that's kind of like the number one like evidence based treatment, you know, and like programs like psychology programs, or whatever, like tend to focus a lot on evidence based theories or evidence based practices. But, you know, those evidence based practices are Really normed or research on marginalized groups and it's mostly white, white centered so. So it's just like what's really what's really represents what what really represents the general population.

Maryann Samreth  40:13

Right? What was like? How did you? When did you first start learning about generational trauma and the healing trauma as integrating the mind, body and soul? Because you said that wasn't taught in your master's program? Like, where? When did those words start coming into your vocabulary? If it's not even taught to you and in your education? Yeah,

Sophia Ou  40:37

um, yeah, that's a good question. I would say, honestly, it's just through personal Googling and researching, like, what's going on with me? Why am I Oh, but Oh, actually, for my, for my family dynamics class, I had to do a channel gram of my family, like going through generations back. And in that is like, in that is like, relationship dynamics, like family secrets, any affairs, marriages, separation divorces, and like you get to see the family patterns and or generational patterns, like through every line. So like, my great grandparents, my grandparents, to my parents, to me, and seeing, like, what's been passed down. And so in my family, like, there was a lot of like, alcoholism, sexual abuse, a lot of like, well, a lot of violence against woman, a lot of substance abuse. And then also like the survivor, survivor genocide, so like that. And like most of my family, like some had family members who were murdered. So like understanding like, how, you know, in each generation, like, there are things that impact the family, but then there are things that are like passed down. So I got to see that from a bigger, a bigger picture. And so then that's kind of when I started doing research on like, intergenerational trauma or like the transmission of like, generational trauma. Yeah, just also just talking with friends who might have the historical trauma as well. Like being having case of slavery, or, you know, other genocides or, you know, indigenous folks like being erased, like stuff like that. So yeah, it's just been a lot of reading and finding, trying to find things that makes sense, right.

Maryann Samreth  42:26

Yeah. I mean, people of color have a lot of trauma. And what can you talk about the frustrations you have right now, like, of, you know, the systemic racism in mental health? And even like, you know, where you're working right now and how you're, I think you said, you mentioned you were the only intern at one of the communities that you work at right now. Do you want to talk about that, and your experiences with, you know, just kind of like, witnessing, like, the systemic racism within mental health and also being in it? Yeah. What is that? What does that like?

Sophia Ou  43:02

Yeah, so So I won't share too much details, but I am. I do work in the south side of Chicago and community health, with underserved adult and children population. And unfortunately, like, where I work, it's very under represented, as far as like, with the community within the community. So like, basically, everyone's mostly white. So it's like white majority on the south side. So it's not very, I would say, creating a barrier to that population getting access to care, right. And at the same time, like, because like we work with the Medicaid system, like, most places don't really accept Medicaid. Right? And so, sometimes these, these folks are like me, like, maybe it's the only choice. And so they try it out. But then like sometimes, like, depending on the cultural competency of us, of the interns, like we could cause more harm, right, because we're all students as well. And we're not, we're still going through our own our own journey, right, with being culturally competent as well. So this kind of just that is like, I would say systemically like, because mostly, mostly, most institutions, like don't really want to deal with the government insurance that that the care that is available is not great. Does that make sense? Like yeah, it's like the institutions that do offer a Medicaid are underfunded, right and don't have as much resources. So the care essentially isn't great. And could or could maybe even cause more harm. Yeah. And so yeah, so I see a lot of severe and persistent mental illnesses. And most of what I do is like crisis management, really, because there's just a lot of things that happen within the community that that really affects, you know, my clients. So, in a nutshell, yeah.

Maryann Samreth  44:56

Yeah, that I can't imagine how frustrating that was being But I'm glad they have you. Because you're also like doing that work to, you know, heal generational trauma. And you know that like, they always say, like, you can go as far within someone's, for someone else's healing journey as you are within your own. So it's all we can do is hope that it'll get better. Who knows? Maybe someone will listen to this episode and do something else who knows?

Sophia Ou  45:26

I don't know,

Maryann Samreth  45:27

do you have any tips or advice for people seeking help? Mental Health? Can't even talk to? Um, do you have any tips and advice for therapists that are seeking to decolonize mental health, as well as people seeking for therapists?

Sophia Ou  45:44

You know, I'm not an expert in decolonizing mental health, because I'm still on my own personal journey. But I will say is that what I will say is that we need to be learning from indigenous folks, like we need to let indigenous folks lead us, right, we need to stop letting White leaders do the work because maybe a little can't decolonize. Right. So that's my opinion. But, you know, some people might disagree, but is to let yourself be led by people different from you. Right? Because when you think about it, like a lot of a lot of Western psychology actually just adopted indigenous practices and called it their own. Like, there's nothing new under the sun, nothing new has been made. Like it's always been there, like, so, like mindfulness, mindfulness based practices are like rooted from indigenous practices, but someone else just just had to say that they, they created it, but really, they didn't. So yeah. But like, I would just say, like, focusing on holistic healing, so mind, body and soul, like integration is like kind of like the step, you know, a step towards, like, being different from Western psychology, because Western psychology is very focused on your thoughts. It's very thought driven, but like, there's more like, I mean, there's like, your nervous system, you know, there's your gut, like, what you're eating, how you're sleeping, your nutrition that affects your mood, as well. And like, all these other interpretive parts of yourself, that make you

Maryann Samreth  47:20

well. Yeah. embodiment.

Sophia Ou  47:23

And yeah, right. And so, so like, No, I'm not an expert, but I'm on my own journey, you know, with what with discovering what it means to decolonize. So just learning from people of color and learning from people different from me. Yeah, I would say, if you're looking for a therapist, make sure that they're trauma informed and make sure they do like some sort of body, their body based therapy, so Somatic Experiencing EMDR, anything that's connects your, your, your body with your mind, right. And that's kind of what helped me realize how much trauma is carried in my body was because like, my, my therapist is like, very body based, like we rarely even talk in therapy. It's a wow, it's all somatic experiencing, and like, looking at the sensations in my body, what's coming up, and then and then doing EMDR. So like, I rarely talk and like, I, you know, and there is like, you know, there is like, there are good things about talk therapy, but when it comes to trauma, like it needs to be a little more holistic. And that's just my opinion. But like, I'm also just not licensed and specializing it, but that's kind of I mean, you're

Maryann Samreth  48:37

probably therapists don't even know what generational trauma is. Can you talk about just a little bit about somatic experiencing? For people who don't know what that is?

Sophia Ou  48:50

Um, yeah. So somatic experiencing is this approach to therapy that helps you be mindful of the sensations in your body and what it's like focused on body awareness. Your embodiment to like, you know, where, where you're feeling that anxiety, what that anxiety feels like, does it have a shape? Does it have a color and giving like visualizations to to it, but then also, being more in touch with your body? I'd say Peter Levine is the I think he's the creator of it. So I can't I can't eloquently explain what it is, but in my own experience with doing it, it helps me be aware when I am anxious because of the sensations that I'm experiencing. Right? So like, Oh, I'm Ting i feel tingling in my chest like I'm anxious. Like being more aware of my nervous system most for the most part. I'm like paying attention to my body and not overriding what my body is telling me because so much What we do is we override what our nervous system is trying to tell us. If we're tired, if we're anxious, you know, if we can't stop, like, really, we're overriding our body's mesh to say, hey, you need to slow down or hey, you need to rest you need to sleep you need to eat. So it's Yeah, I think it's for me, it's been mostly getting back in touch with my body. And establishing safety within with internal safety, internal sense of safety within my body. Does that make sense?

Maryann Samreth  50:27

Yeah, yeah, I think that is something that, I mean, I'm still working on connecting my mind with my body. And I feel like a lot of my Americans have burnout tendencies. It's probably because of, yeah, we're overriding our nervous system, and we're not listening to our bodies. So it's, it's interesting that, that you bring this up, because connecting with our bodies is so important. And in Cambodia, such like a rich culture, like spiritual culture, which ironic because we can't use our drama. But we are we are, we're both of us are doing it. So many Americans are doing it too. And so I want to ask you, what does being climber can mean to you,

Sophia Ou  51:15

I would say, resilience is like being resilient, being compassionate towards my ancestors for surviving, you know, what they did and what they endured. And also having compassion for myself as someone who is trying to heal from, you know, the generational trauma. And, you know, maybe maladaptive coping skills that were passed on to me is like, embracing that in order to get through in order to break to break the pattern, right. And also appreciating the residency that my ancestors also passed on to me as well. And reclaiming, reclaiming that, like we are people like, that are so much more than our genocide that are so much more than deportation, so much more than gang activity, and drugs, right in crime. And looking to see that we're showing people who have survived and like, maybe like, there aren't a lot of people who represent our community. Well, but that's because maybe trauma like you know, is manifesting in a certain way, right, like, yeah, having compassion for our people, you know, as well, so, and for me, it just means to keep fighting and to keep reclaiming, you know, the narrative and rewriting the narrative for myself.

Maryann Samreth  52:33

And you're doing it, you are doing it,

Sophia Ou  52:35

I'm trying.

Maryann Samreth  52:37

So one final question, what do you wish the world has more of?

Sophia Ou  52:43

Honestly, I would say compassion. I think it starts with compassion. Right. Like for, for us to humanize others, and to see our humaneness as well. Yeah, humanizing others and seeing our human humanity, right. Because as people of color, we're always going to be simple class citizens, right? We're always viewed as second class citizens. And, you know, we're living in a system that is against our brown bodies. And I really wish that the world had more compassion to see us as humans, right to see is more than just someone who takes your job and someone who, you know, like takes away your tax money. I don't know, like all that bullshit, like, found like, a lot of like Southeast Asians, you're coming from war torn countries, you're coming from genocides, you're coming from violence, right? And, and so are a lot of other people colors, like, you know, you have the Afghan and the Haitian refugees that are seeking refuge, seeking refuge because they feel threatened in their homeland. And, and I wish the world had more compassion for people who are seeking refuge. Like, yeah, that's just my own. I mean, I say that from a personal like, space, but I feel like if we were to just see people as humans, and like, like, I feel like it would be such a better place, but that's me dreaming. So

Maryann Samreth  54:17

I mean, it's, it's a tough word we live in and I, I like to believe that as doing the work that we're doing, raising our voices and taking up space that hopefully, like things change. Because our, our voices matter, even being as we said, like a second class citizen or whatever, like we are as important as anybody out there. And I think that's so true. Just viewing everyone as equals that regardless of the color of our skin, which is so cool, but like we can't comprehend it, which is so frustrating. Yeah. But yeah, I hope we can get there someday. And I think we're part of that movement to make, you know, a more compassionate world where we're doing our part. And that's all that we can do as to people with using our voices and having podcast. So do you want to just talk a little bit about your podcast? what it's about? Oh, sure.

Sophia Ou  55:18

Thank you. Um, yeah, so my podcast is called the dice Beto podcast. And it's for people of color and marginalized folks, LGBTQ community, anyone who has a marginalized voice to share their story, whether it be related to your ethnic journey or any other, you know, intersectional identity that you identify with, in in talking about your experience, you know, in America, or if you're, you know, overseas or somewhere else in a different cultural context. Yeah, just to create that space for people to share and talk about it. Because like, I think I went through my own ethnic journey, ethnic identity, Journey formation. So just preparing let's face for people to come on and talk. Awesome. That's pretty much what it is.

Maryann Samreth  56:04

That's awesome. So how can my followers follow you? What's your Instagram handle? Or handles?

Sophia Ou  56:10

Yeah, my Instagram is Diaspiero podcast. And then my email, if you want to reach out is diaspieropodcast@gmail.com. In the podcast is available on Spotify, anchor apple, and I think Google. Well, yeah, you can find it there. And yeah, it should be in the description. So yeah.

Maryann Samreth  56:40

Thanks for reminding me. Well, thank you so much, Sophia, for coming on my podcast. And this was a powerful episode of mental breakthrough. Thank you for coming on. Sharing your vulnerability and mostly sharing your heart with all of us. This was a I have no words. I'm just I'm in awe. And I'm so grateful for all that you are and all the work that you're doing to make the world a more compassionate place. So thank you so much for being here.

Sophia Ou  57:09

Thank you for having me on for listening and for you know, carrying my my story, so Well, it really was my first time actually like verbalizing that publicly, since like that one event. But yeah, I appreciate it.

Maryann Samreth  57:23

Yeah, we're all here to lift you up and give you support, encouragement and acknowledge your badassaray. Thanks. Thank you, Sophia. We all have a story to tell and I want to thank you for listening to Sofia's. I'm Maryanne trauma training coach and founder of sincerely Miss Mary. I hope Sophia story empowered, encouraged and inspired you to keep going on your healing journey. All of her information will be in the show notes. If you like this episode, please leave me a review on Apple podcast and follow me on there and Spotify. A quick announcement before I say goodbye is my upcoming workshop with Audrey Gerber happening this Friday, November 19 at 10am Central Time 11am Eastern Time, Audrey and I created this workshop to empower women to reclaim the love of their bodies so they reclaim the love for themselves. Audrey is a PMS and period coach. And together we are combining forces to create this two and a half hour woman's healing workshop. We are both trauma informed and have an understanding of trauma being stuck in our bodies. So in this workshop, we will be trauma writing, coaching, facilitating group discussions to heal as a collective. It'll be a very powerful workshop and I hope to see you there. You can buy your tickets on the link in the show notes. I hope you enjoy the episode and I will see you guys all soon.

Transcript via otter. Apologies for typos.